New wing/BP bouyancy

[Capnsnott]

I have a question for you all. First off, I haven't taken the DIR-f class yet. One of my LDS instructors is trying to get a GUE instructor up here later in the summer.
In the mean time, I want to get time in on my new stuff. And get things figured out first.

I have the 45# Pioneer w/ SS-BP, regs all set up the way my DIR book says.
I was working on rescue stuff in the pool tonight, wearing this stuff for the first time. I had on a 5mm shorty, 4# of weight in my side bags (since we had to practice ditching weights) & an 80 AL tank.
The wing is forcing me forward while I'm on the surface, and I tried to keep just enough air in it to stay above water. So I put 4# of weight in the balast bags on my lower tank band. It only helped a little. I was WAY over weighted and not too thrilled about it. Somehow, rescue breathing wasn't much fun in this situation.
I was thinking of moving my balast bags to the back of the tank, one on each band next to the buckles and skipping the ditchable weight.
Any ideas? I want to get comfortable with this setup for rec diving. I have way too many dives to do before I even think about tech, or steel tanks.
What should I try?
Thanks.
Greg

 

[Snowbear]

...So I put 4# of weight in the balast bags on my lower tank band. It only helped a little. I was WAY over weighted and not too thrilled about it.
...
I was thinking of moving my balast bags to the back of the tank, one on each band next to the buckles and skipping the ditchable weight.
...
Any ideas?

If you're WAY overweighted with that 4# ballast, why are you wanting to keep it?

 

[Spectre]

You are going in the wrong direction. If you are too heavy on the surface, you need more gas in your wing. If you have more gas in your wing, there is less 'space' for the gas to adjust to the top of hte wing and keep your vertical. With a 44# wing, there should be plenty of room in that wing, providing you're not inflating it far more than it needs to keep you afloat.

Question, did you come from a jacket style BC, or a back inflation style BC? The back inflation takes some getting used to. It's not the BP/Wing, it's the back inflation that puts you on your face until you get used to it.

 

[roakey]

This is one of those hard-to-solve-online problems.

Before the BP&W, how much weight did you use with a "mainstream" BC?

With the BP&W, can you descend with a nearly empty cylinder without the 4#?

Roak

 

[bwerb]

In my Rescue class...divers were allowed to use weightbelts with no weights on them to simulate removal of the belt. Perhaps you could use one of these "blanks" instead of having actual weights to ditch.

 

[Capnsnott]

I came from a jacket style BC, in FW I used 15# of weight with my full suit on.
I didn't think of not having weights in the side pouches, I will try that.

When I had the 4# in the side pouches (2+2) and nothing in the balast bags, I really wanted to fall forward. That was with minimal air in the wing.

I haven't had an empty cylinder on yet. The 6# of bouyancy from it really plays into the equation, that's one more thing I need to experience.
I can see why steel tanks are a bonus for this type of setup.

It is a different world, I'm sure there is a "getting use to it" period. The face down effect just messed with my head. Not to mention the instructor cracking "tech wannabe" jokes.

 

[detroit diver]

I'm thinking part of the problem may be that your wing is MUCH too large for single tank diving. The air bag sits too high and wide, and for you to maintain on-surface bouyancy, you need to put too much air in the wing. Then it pushes you too far forward.

Most single tank divers use a 27 or 36 lb wing. Do you know anyone that has one of these that you could borrow? If so, trade it out for one pool session and see if it makes a difference.

 

[Capnsnott]

I was afraid this wing would be too big. I have a steel 72 I could dive with, maybe I'll try it out next time. Can this wing be pulled in some?
I don't have access to anything else.
thanks
Greg

 

[detroit diver]

The tank size won't make the wing any smaller, unfortunately. I don't have a good answer for you other than to try a different wing if possible. I think it will make a difference.

Good luck!

 

[JaxDiver]

I've been a lurker in the forum, but this is the first time posting in DIR. I'm a beginner, haven't taken DIR-F, but am convinced of the system. Please go easy on me....thanks!

I also just moved from jacket style BC to B/P with wings. I have the Halcyon 45 lb wing because I also dive up in Canada - but most of the time is here in Florida.

I dive mostly with AL100's (little heavier starting out, but a much bigger change in tank buoyancy - so I need more weight at the end of my dive.) I used to use between 12 and 16 lbs of weight between fresh and salt water with the jacket style. With the new setup, SS backplate and 2 SL6 lights on the harness, I was able to stay submerged with only 4 lbs and 500 psi in the tank.

I am almost neutrally buoyant without any added weight and very little air in the wing. I have lots of capability for positive buoyancy, so I'm not worried about that part....but my question is this, can I just loose the weight belt and use a pocket for the 4 lbs? When I add on a reel / primary light / other stuff I probably won't even need that 4 lbs. I think I know the answer, but am wondering if anyone else can dive without a weight belt. How safe is it to dive without "easily" ditchable weight.

First thought is that in an emergency we're taught to establish positive buoyancy. In my case, rather than ditching weights, I would ditch lights, etc. Does that make sense? Obviously my partner would need to be familiar with my gear and how to help me if something does go wrong (that's the mentality of "Doing it Right" - right?)