New Whites Fusion Bullet Drysuit

[jenth]

Thanks for posting those photos, Mike!

Do you happen to know if we can get this new skin with the old pockets? I have to admit that I'm not a huge fan of the side zippers (seems like another failure point...especially for someone like me who sometimes gets tumbled in SoCal surf and manages to get sand in places it doesn't belong ).

I also miss the metal eyelets that allow you to thread bungee through. I do see that there's a plastic D-Ring in the pocket...

Okay...enough critiques I really do appreciate what you and Whites do to make us happy! Thanks again!

 

[Rainer]

Yeah, the pocket zippers are a silly addition. At some point they'll just fail (sand+zippers = sucky). Oh, and yeah, they need to add back the grommets. The dinky plastic d-ring is lame. Oh, well. At least they got rid of the ugly graphics.

 

[Dive Right In Scuba]

Remember, this is pretty much just a concept drysuit. This is NOT a final version. So be sure to voice what you do and do not like so that when its produced, you get the ultimate suit

 

[HenrikBP]

Mike. Thanks for posting those pictures. They gives a better impression of what the pockets look like.

Remember, this is pretty much just a concept drysuit. This is NOT a final version. So be sure to voice what you do and do not like so that when its produced, you get the ultimate suit

Well, since you opened the door ...

This looks to be a good starting point for well designed pockets sewn to stretchy material

http://www.diverightinscuba.com/catalog/images/xsscubashorts.jpg

I think the webbing loop with the D-ring is ok. You can always cut the D-ring and tie a loop of bungie through the webbing where the D-ring was. I've seen that done on Halcyon pockets and it worked nicely. It would also eliminate rusting grommets.

I still think the pocket material should be more rigid for ease of use under water. They might not be super slick looking, but I think they'd work better.

Henrik

 

[W8less]

For those of us that like diving cold with neoprene gloves, velcro closure strips on the pockets are a pita. The only thing that sticks to the velcro is your gloves. Maybe a hard rubber tab on the outside of the pocket flap or some sort of pull, so your hand doesn't come in contact with the velcro.

Take a look at the xs scuba weight pocket for a closure system that's thoughtfully designed.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

Remember, this is pretty much just a concept drysuit. This is NOT a final version. So be sure to voice what you do and do not like so that when its produced, you get the ultimate suit

Since you are at DEMA please give them my comments on the pockets:
As stated above,
1. the zippers are a bad idea
2. they need to put the grommets back in - bungee loops are more or less standard on pockets in the cave community.
3. A single D-ring limits your options. With two bungees, 1 fore and 1 aft, you can clip frequently used stuff on one and clip the infrequent/oh **** stuff on the other. Then, if you place the infrequent items in the bottom of the pocket you don't pull everything out when you just need a single item. Much cleaner and easier to organize.
4. Also, the grommets on the tech skin are on the front face of the pocket, but grommets work a bit better on the sides of the pocket as close to the top as possible.
5. I have not had issues with rusty grommets, but you could also sew a loop of nylon webbing at the top of each side of the pocket to tie a bungee loop to. But grommets work better in my opinion as you can put a granny knot in each end of the bungee and shove the loop through the grommet and it is very secure and not prone to coming untied.
5. Plus 1 on the velcro sucks with gloves in cold water. A stiff flap - either rubber tabs, or a stiff plastic insert between layers of fabric on the flap makes it much easier to feel, open and close in cold water.
6. Sewing the pocket on along the sides and bottom but leaving the top open is also nice as it provides a space for small flat items like dive tables, and helps further organize the pocket contents. But it also requires a fairly stiff flap to prevent even more confusion when feeling around with heavy gloves on.

Nit picky details maybe but it's worth doing it right.

 

[Dive Right In Scuba]

Since you are at DEMA please give them my comments on the pockets:
As stated above,
1. the zippers are a bad idea
2. they need to put the grommets back in - bungee loops are more or less standard on pockets in the cave community.
3. A single D-ring limits your options. With two bungees, 1 fore and 1 aft, you can clip frequently used stuff on one and clip the infrequent/oh **** stuff on the other. Then, if you place the infrequent items in the bottom of the pocket you don't pull everything out when you just need a single item. Much cleaner and easier to organize.
4. Also, the grommets on the tech skin are on the front face of the pocket, but grommets work a bit better on the sides of the pocket as close to the top as possible.
5. I have not had issues with rusty grommets, but you could also sew a loop of nylon webbing at the top of each side of the pocket to tie a bungee loop to. But grommets work better in my opinion as you can put a granny knot in each end of the bungee and shove the loop through the grommet and it is very secure and not prone to coming untied.
5. Plus 1 on the velcro sucks with gloves in cold water. A stiff flap - either rubber tabs, or a stiff plastic insert between layers of fabric on the flap makes it much easier to feel, open and close in cold water.
6. Sewing the pocket on along the sides and bottom but leaving the top open is also nice as it provides a space for small flat items like dive tables, and helps further organize the pocket contents. But it also requires a fairly stiff flap to prevent even more confusion when feeling around with heavy gloves on.

Nit picky details maybe but it's worth doing it right.

I don't make the suits, but this is what ANYONE would want to hear! This is all great feedback you guys are providing and I will bring it to those that can make it happen. Lets not just dive a suit, lets build the ultimate suit!

 

[TSandM]

I think Whites has the opportunity to build the king of all drysuits. Coming up with a way to stick the pockets to the underlying bag is a BIG step forward.

Most of us who are doing technical or cave diving want a capacious pocket. Most of my pockets have an annoying strip of Velcro down the sides to allow collapsing the pocket when it's empty. It's never empty, and I hate the Velcro. Similarly, the zippers on these new pockets will never be used.

Grommets are critical. We tie loops in our pockets. We can even be pretty anal about exactly where and how the loops are tied (my cave instructor made me retie all of mine). I don't want a D-ring -- it makes it too hard to pull stuff out and sort through it.

I would love a solution to floppy pocket flaps and velcro, but honestly, all the pockets I've ever had have had floppy velcro flaps and I'm used to them. Changing the flaps would be a (welcome) gear solution to a technique problem A stiffener of any sort would make life more pleasant.

The Fusion is such a remarkable suit. The attached shoes are a step forward. Solving the pocket issues would make the suit damned near perfect.

 

[HenrikBP]

I think Whites has the opportunity to build the king of all drysuits. Coming up with a way to stick the pockets to the underlying bag is a BIG step forward. <snip>

The Fusion is such a remarkable suit. The attached shoes are a step forward. Solving the pocket issues would make the suit damned near perfect.

I agree completely with Lynne. A "function over form" approach to the pocket design would round out an already great suit.

But since we're building a wish list;

- come up with a way to prevent the velcro suspender attachments from slipping through the suspender "guides" in the front of the suit as per Mike's "tight in the crotch" thread.

- add a loop of sorts to the inside of the suit to secure the P-valve hose and keep it in place while getting into the suit.

Henrik

 

[BabyDuck]

a comment, do with it what you will since i don't have a fusion. i think it'll be my next suit when the teething problems are worked out. just not an early adapter for this one!

i like the pockets on my andy's. they are large and the pocket itself is stiff (since it's made of trilam) so it stays open if it's open. they close with a large-bore zipper across the top, which might not be ideal for surf but neither is velcro, i guess. they are sewn on like larry said, down the sides & across the bottom, so the top is open for something flat to slide between the pocket & the leg of your suit (though it usually falls out when i hang the suit to dry). they have a larger plastic triangle than the d-ring above, which i intend to loop a bungee through but haven't yet. right now i'm clipping stuff to the ring, but it's crowded.

so my thoughts are that the pocket is too small, too soft, with a too-small d-ring, and the side zip is silly.