New to DIR questions

[TSandM]

Again, this question was asked in the DIR forum, and the DIR answer is that a quick release is not needed and adds at least a small amount of additional failure risk to a harness. This is our system's decision; others can make other choices.

If you would like the contact information for someone in Melbourne, Nick Schoeffler is a nice guy and a GUE instructor there.

 

[Diver0001]

I'll just preface this by saying that I'm not hard core DIR but I believe there is a lot to be learned from a clear statement of best practices. I'll give you my personal opinion and try to explain what I think a DIR hard-liner would say to you.

QUESTION 1:

The DIR recommendations for webbing state that there should be no fail points on your webbing "rigged from one piece of webbing and should have no quick-release buckles or other failure points".
However in an open water incident where removing your gear is required would it not be more beneficial to be able to unclip and float to the surface. Or are people really set in their mind that a failure point
on your harness is just a f**k-up waiting to happen?

DIR divers would say that risks can can be 100% eliminated SHOULD be 100% eliminated.

I agree with them. My harness is also continuous webbing. It takes a little practice to learn how to get in and out of it but (a) quick releases are not necessary and (b) not necessary. That said, I've never seen a quick release ... "release" under water although there are those who insist it can happen. There are alternatives to quick releases that don't compromise the integrity of the continuous webbing but I believe a DIR diver would say that it's just another bell or whistle that you don't need. Again, I would agree.

QUESTION 2:

What do you guys believe are the most beneficial physical skills to learn in preparation for cave/tec diving
and what agencies should i look to train through, is padi fine? I just want basic fundamentals to practice, the rest i can learn from experienced divers

I have been told my buoyancy/trim and ability is advanced beyond what most new divers can achieve but at the moment it has been my main focus point.
i.e. Control of trim and buoyancy, also been trying to get my breathing rate reaaally slow.

To be perfectly honest I would have to see you in the water to know what to advise. There are several paths available to you.

QUESTION 3:

Just want some opinions on my gear is the wing going to be fine for now for OW rec use. and what wings do you recommend i consider in the future for cave and tec diving.
Are there any really good equipment recommendations you guys have.

I got some really good prices on a brand new s/s halcyon bp it came with a dive rite rec wing for double and single tanks also new. No webbing so first question will help me decide "Halcyon webbing >/< Hollis Elite 2 webbing"
I also got a mk25/s600 which i will have detuned and use as the backup reg on a dual setup in the future and ill buy a new mk25 a700 or maybe another s600 if i like it enough.
Also i know comps are non-dir but i bought a shearwater predator, ill still be plan all my dives myself etc and record my own logs

I can't advise you about DIR standard gear part of the reason is that I haven't dived with all of it and part of the reason is that I don't believe DIR has a standard gear list. I can tell you what I like, and what I dive with but I'm not sure that will help you make a decision.

As a general principle, I think DIR divers would steer you towards simplification. I would personally agree with that. My current regulators have no "user tweekable" bells or whistles and have served me perfectly to any depth I've wanted to dive. Bells and whistles do not always mean that something is better.

R..

 

[DaleC]

I would not get too attached to the word stroke. I haven't met anyone IRL who talks that way and would shy away from them if they did. It actually paints the speaker in a poor light IMO. The original term was meant, not to describe people who dive differently from DIR, but to describe those individuals who would bulls*t about their abilities to either convince others how good they were or to inflate their own egos. Not the same as simply weighting equipment choices differently. GUE does it's thing but it doesn't mean all other choices are wrong.

The one piece harness is a good system but to be honest, it isn't the be all/end all at the recreational level, but if you are going tech it will become more so. What is more important is to be clean and uncomplicated. I dislike quick releases because they add something to catch on or snag and really don't serve a purpose. But I wouldn't bug any of my buddies for having them at the rec level. Meh.
The number of times I have had to take my rig off underwater: 0
The number of times I have had a buckle fail: 0
I vintage dive and sometimes use a Hawaiian pack, which is basically two metal hoops over the shoulder and a waist strap. No harness from the chest D rings down. Number of times that has fallen off underwater:0

 

[PfcAJ]

The one piece harness thing is less about it releasing in the water, but when you're on a pitching boat with doubles on your back. Secondary to that, its to avoid the chance of the quick release getting smashed and broken, as plastic bits are inclined to do.

 

[lv2dive]

One other thing to note about the one piece harness is that many people find it much more comfortable than the "comfort" harnesses marketed by some manufacturers. Ironic, huh?

 

[rongoodman]

The only adjustable harness I would consider. I've dangled underneath helicopters on those stainless steel buckles, so I trust them. That being said, the one piece harness makes more sense most of the time.

 

[hayden]

.....

 

[g1138]

reiterates the idea of not diving with strokes!

just moved countries so im hoping i can come across someone with similar interests in diving as me that would also be open minded to 'doing it right'

thanks for the input.

Ditch the idea of "strokes" and solely diving with DIR buddies.
That kind of idea is why DIR got an insane bad rap from the start.

It's simply a method of diving safe. For recreational diving keep an open mind and coach others on technique when they'll accept the feedback, don't shun them on gear choices.
Any gear configuration can be secured low profile and be effective for the recreational world.

And until you're at least 100 dives in and have some experience teaching classes, don't be that know it all on the dive boat. Lot of foot in mouth moments will happen otherwise, only problem is you won't notice them till it pops up on this board.

 

[hayden]

I would not get too attached to the word stroke. I haven't met anyone IRL who talks that way and would shy away from them if they did. It actually paints the speaker in a poor light IMO. The original term was meant, not to describe people who dive differently from DIR, but to describe those individuals who would bulls*t about their abilities to either convince others how good they were or to inflate their own egos. Not the same as simply weighting equipment choices differently. GUE does it's thing but it doesn't mean all other choices are wrong.

The one piece harness is a good system but to be honest, it isn't the be all/end all at the recreational level, but if you are going tech it will become more so. What is more important is to be clean and uncomplicated. I dislike quick releases because they add something to catch on or snag and really don't serve a purpose. But I wouldn't bug any of my buddies for having them at the rec level. Meh.
The number of times I have had to take my rig off underwater: 0
The number of times I have had a buckle fail: 0
I vintage dive and sometimes use a Hawaiian pack, which is basically two metal hoops over the shoulder and a waist strap. No harness from the chest D rings down. Number of times that has fallen off underwater:0

with the intention of delving into the murky deeps of cave/tec, it'd probably be much more beneficial to just be using the one piece, become a pro of sliding in and out of it etc !

thanks for the input mate

 

[Hawkwood]

reiterates the idea of not diving with strokes!
...

Really? You have got to be kidding.