new photographer/old motor marine

[scubeedoo]

I bought a Sea and Sea motor marine camera off of Ebay last year. It was brand new in the box but I presume it is an old model as I have not seen it anywhere on the web since.
I took it on my vacation to Mexico on new years and discovered how difficult it really was to shoot photos u.w. with this thing. Turned out that less than half of the photos were satisfactory. All other shots were either underexposed/out of focus/or simply that I was not fast enough to catch the subject on film.
I don't really have enough time or resourses to take an u.w. photography class, so does anyone out there know anything about this camera, and possibly what I am doing wrong or what accessories I should get for it? I know there is alot of ground to cover here but I would appreciate any input I can get.
I am a puddle jumper, which is to say I dive in cold, dark, low vis. (10-50 ft.) Great Lake waters. Seldom do I get a chance to do the salty stuff. This of course means that the subjects are rarely things that move or have a variety of colours (wrecks or other divers in the wrecks) since the lakes are pretty well devoid of any kind of life (except of course for Zebra mussels, algae and that scummy stuff that sits on the bottom).

 

[Liang]

Hi,

I assume you are using Sea&Sea MM-EX. I started off with the same camera. You can actually get some decent pixs.

A few questions:

1) Are you using a camera that look simlar to this one, see www.seaandsea.com/mmiiex.html

2) What lens are you using. Any Conversion lens such as 20mm, 15mm or macro attachment or are you using only the standard 35mm lens?

4) What would you like to shoot?

5) Since you are diving in cold, dark low vis places. Do you have a strobe.

Some advise:

1) MM EX is not a point and shot camera.

2) Forget about signing up for a class. Get some books and learn it by reading them and trying them out UW. Look out for some websites, they have good simple instruction for beginners like me and u.

3) You will need to know basic photography technique such as aperture, shutter speed and their effect

4) You will need to have a strobe and learn flash photography.

5) Most people will be disappointed with their picx the first few times. If you are looking for pictures close to those in magazines. You will need lots of patience and practice.

cheers
liang

 

[Dee]

Good reply, Liang.

Scubeedoo....Dave Read has an excellent website for u/w photography instruction. Click Here. He has a way of explaining everything in plain English that makes it very easy to understand.

 

[scubeedoo]

Thanks! I'm certain this will help. Yes, the camera you describe is mine. I do have the rudimentary basics for photography as I took classes in University. It just seems so long ago, and uw photography so, well, tough and alien. However, I'm certain I'll manage especially since I got some great advice.

Thanks again, Todd

 

[Liang]

Hi,

If you have specific questions on UW photography and equipment, I will be happy to advise.

Be warned than I am still a beginner as well... I have read most books and websites available on this topic.

Happy shooting..... but trust me, it is hard in the beginning, it is nothing like taking pix on land.

liang

 

[Marvintpa]

When diving in the Great Lakes there is one key item to keep in mind when it comes to photography: we do not have the crystal clear water they do in the Caribean, so be prepared to get close. If you are shooting wrecks (and what else is there to shoot in the Great Lakes?) seriously consider getting the wide angle lens for your camera, it will make a world of difference. You'll likely be shooting with the lens wide open (widest aperture) and available light if you want to get in as much of the wreck as possible - so get well acquainted with the slowest shutter speeds your camera has.

The backscatter you will likely encounter can be reduced by holding your strobe as far from the lens as possible.

I started off with the MX10 (a camera much more humble than yours) and it got me hooked.

You can see some of the shots at
www.geocities.com/marvintpaa

 

[scubeedoo]

I checked out your webpage. NICE PHOTOS! There are pix. of many wrecks I have seen and pix. of some I want to see. The little histories and descriptions were accurate and helpful. The Arabia had claimed another life in Aug. of 2000. The guy either had a heart attack or passed out on the ascent line. I was there on another boat that weekend on the Forest City, so you might want to update your site to illustrate that.
Anyway, I am having a hard time finding the appropriate flash for the camera. As of now I only have the built in flash which is inadequate and seems to illuminate all the junk floating between my camera and the subject (which is of course always a diver or shipwreck). I have a macro lens that was supplied and have never used it, but I don't yet have a wide angle lens. Won't that give a "fisheye" look to the pix?
I do have to get close to the subject because the stupid flash isn't bright enough to illuminate the subject from more than 8 feet away.
Most of the colours get washed out, I think I am overexposing the shots. I have been told to always use the flash, but I found that using the light meter in the camera helps, and that the flash is not always needed. Most of the shots are taken in less than 70 feet on a sunny day in reasonably clear waters. Is that the case?
I am also having a hard time guesstimating the distance to the subject, so many of the photos are somewhat out of focus. Hopefully that correction comes with time.
Anyway, thanks for responding, and I love the "GREENYNESS" (if that is a word) of the photos taken in Kingston. Makes me want to go back and dive the Wolfe Islander and Muson! They are my favorite wrecks in that area.

 

[ID_D]

Any help to these questions would be greatly appreciated...

I just purchased a MMII (not EX) off Ebay as well. The camera seems to operate okay, but I'll know for certain in a few days once the first roll is developed. The manual indicates that a green light will light when the aperture is set properly. I've yet to see this light turn on, regardless of setting. This leads me to believe the LED is out. But I can get the red light to go out, which I'm guessing is about the same as having the green on. Is this a safe assumption? Would having the aperture too low (ie towards 3.5) cause the the green lamp to go out? Or can the camera compensate for this?

When shooting indoors at night, I can't get the red light to go out even with the internal flash active. Does this sound normal? This roll was 400 speed, could this have been a factor? I'll switch to 100 from now on.

Finally, at least for now, when I have the YS-50TTL strobe attached, should I keep the aperture set to the non-flash range? I've found that having it in the internal flash range causes both the strobe and the internal flash to operate simultaneously.

I have yet to take the camera underwater, so all of the situations I describe above are on dry land. Once the new o-rings arrive and I feel more confident, I'll start the U/W tests.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Rooster]

Originally posted by ID_D
Any help to these questions would be greatly appreciated...

I just purchased a MMII (not EX) off Ebay as well. The camera seems to operate okay, but I'll know for certain in a few days once the first roll is developed. The manual indicates that a green light will light when the aperture is set properly. I've yet to see this light turn on, regardless of setting. This leads me to believe the LED is out. But I can get the red light to go out, which I'm guessing is about the same as having the green on. Is this a safe assumption? Would having the aperture too low (ie towards 3.5) cause the the green lamp to go out? Or can the camera compensate for this?

When shooting indoors at night, I can't get the red light to go out even with the internal flash active. Does this sound normal? This roll was 400 speed, could this have been a factor? I'll switch to 100 from now on.

Finally, at least for now, when I have the YS-50TTL strobe attached, should I keep the aperture set to the non-flash range? I've found that having it in the internal flash range causes both the strobe and the internal flash to operate simultaneously.

I have yet to take the camera underwater, so all of the situations I describe above are on dry land. Once the new o-rings arrive and I feel more confident, I'll start the U/W tests.

Thanks in advance.

OK. Let see if I can answer your questions off the top of my head. It's been awhile since I used a MMII. I'll start by trying to explain the 3 LEDs in the viewfinder.

The red one is an under exposure warning (not enough light). This comes on when the camera senses that there isn't enough light coming through the lens to properly expose the film. This is independent of the TTL sensor. Red light on, not enough light. Red light off, enough light. The red light only measures the light coming through the lens before the shutter is released. Having the red light come on indoors with low light and with the strobe on is normal. Switching to ISO 100 will not fix the problem. Actually it's harder to get proper exposure with lower speed film, but you get less grainy photos. To check to see if the sensor is working, point the camera at a bright light (like a light bulb),with the strobe on and the red light should not come on.

The Green light is the TTL sensor. It only comes on when an external TTL capable strobe is attached, like your YS-50, and the strobe is set to TTL. The TTL sensor measures the light bouncing off the film and quenches the flash when enough light has entered the camera. "If" the sensor reads enough light, and quenches the strobe, the green light will come on in the viewfinder for about three seconds. This happens immediately after the shot. If the flash fires and the green light does not come on, there was not enough light. You can then move to a large aperture (lower number) opening, or move closer, and shoot again. Again the green light will only come on after the flash, and only if there was proper exposure.

The Yellow light is a flash ready light. It will come on when either the internal or external flash is ready to flash.
And for your last question. Don't use the internal and external strobes at the same time. You need to use the aperture setting recommended by the chart on the side of your strobe. If you using 400 speed film, with a subject distance of 2.3 to 11 feet, the chart recommends F-8.
Hope this helps. If you have any more questions, feel free.

 

[spottydog]

I've had the MMII (not EX) for about a year now and found my photography has improved greatly over the 40 or so rolls I have shot through the camera so far.

My personnal view is as follows:
- You need a strobe (the bigger the better) particulary when you are in water that is not perfectly clear
- I get better results with the wide angle lens than with the 35mm lens (I think this may have something to do with the fact that I don't need to worry about setting the distance)
- To get the green light workin on the strobe the strobe needs to be set to TTL and it still takes some practice.
- Pictures should be shot with the camera angled upwards to use as much natural light as possible (you can also get some really nice effects using sunlight and I particularly like photos where the reef is reflected from the surface of the water).

I found this site useful when I first got my camera (the difference between the MMII & MMII-EX is that the EX has a choice of shutter speeds which the MMII does not.

http://freespace.virgin.net/andy.aj/jscheck.html?up/up35mm.html

Hope this helps. Happy snapping

Anne