Question New-ish to UW photography, picking strobes, Backscatter HF-1?

[Chrisk919]

Background:
So I started playing with UW photography shortly before my last big trip in the form of an iPhone housing, but during that trip I was disappointed with the results even with a supplementary video light. (Oceanic+ iPhone housing, Kraken Hydra 2500v2, iPhone 14 Pro Max)
I just found the iPhone housing had too little "control" to be good for anything beyond snapshots of your trip, but underwater.

So I'm making the jump to a used Nauticam 650D housing (I have experience on land with Canon bodies) and I'm in the process of collecting some ports/diopters/zoom gears for lenses as I can find them/as needed. Primary types of underwater photography I find myself drawn towards would probably be macro work, and wide-angle close-focus .

This leaves the choice of lighting/strobes so I've been trying to weigh my options.
Based on what I've read here I think I've pulled a few points out that drive me to look at the Backscatter HF-1, but would be interested to get input.

It seems like the HF-1 ticks the right strobe boxes [no need for TTL anyway, big honkin GN for use with a diffuser], and as a bonus I get a video light for those times when I want to shoot a little video, or as a focus light/backup light on a night dive.

Questions:
So here are the questions:

• Is a snoot available/coming for the HF-1 if I wanted to use a snoot for macro work, or will I end up with a dedicated snoot-light anyway if I want to go that route?
• To get started, could I start with a single HF-1 and add another later to help fill out the wide-angle shots - or will I have lighting gaps from the start?
  • (I mean it says it's GN 40...) I'm trying to figure out if I only see dual strobes on underwater rigs because of the need for 'more light' with 20ish GN strobes or for other reasons beyond top-lighting/side-lighting/flash distance.

Any input is appreciated.

--Chris

 

[ShallowSeasGallery]

- The snoot is listed in the manual for the HF-1 and Backscatter confirmed its on the way

- You can take fantastic images with just one strobe, in fact sometimes I turn off my (second and third) strobe to get the "look" I want. I say head into single-strobedom without fear, you'll get great training for if you ever decide to add a second, third, or fourth.

- For macro these light sources are added the same way a portrait photographer has fill lights and key lights, for wide angle the additional strobe adds a wider field of coverage., though you'll be able to do some CFWA with a single strobe if you can accept some potentially harsher shadows.

- Upgraded from Inon z-330s to the HF-1 a few weeks ago and they are crazy powerful.

 

[bvanant]

Depends on what you want to shoot. For macro they are crazy powerful but crazy big and heavy. For macro the MF-2 seems like the right choice and for snooting. No need for giant power with an optical snoot. For WA of course, more power is indeed better. We just got back from a Komodo trip that was aimed at small stuff, one guy had 2 HF-1 strobes (Nikon Z9) and I got equivalent shots with 2 x MF-2.
Bill

 

[cetacean]

@Chrisk919

Some good advice above... just to add:

You can get great shots with one strobe, both my young adult kids also shoot underwater, and still only shoot with one strobe (they have been shooting like this for ~6 years). Shooting wide angle (and bigger subjects) benefits from having two balanced strobes, but for macro one is fine for the vast majority of situations you will find yourself in.

As for the strobe itself, the HF 1 has been getting very good reviews. The only criticism so far has been the dials are a bit small to grip if your are cold water diving, wearing thick gloves (someone has already 3D printed a piece that fits over the top that makes gripping the red nob a little easier). Adding a 2nd HF-1 down the line when you're ready to tackle wide angle is not an issue (assuming that Backscatter continue to produce the HF-1, which judging by the early success seems like a reasonable assumption).

You may already be a great diver - however diving with a DSLR rig take a little bit of getting used to. Diving with one strobe for a bit will make that learning curve a little bit easier.

Two quick things to keep in mind:
- Guide numbers underwater are essentially meaningless. Instead, look at things like strobe angle of coverage (without diffuser), the recycle rate of the strobe, and # of shots per full battery charge. Backscatter is very familar with the GN fallacy, they chose to publish a number anyway because it shows the HF-1 is (relative to other stobes) quite powerful. Don't look at the GN by itself, it's only relevant to other strobes at whatever price point you are willing to spend.

Having said this, the HF-1 is a powerful strobe, potentially the most powerful strobe for the $.

- You mentioned snooting... given your limited previous experience shooting underwater, consider focusing on learning straight macro (w/the Canon 100mm f2.8) for your next several trips. Getting good macro shots is easier than wide angle (for sure), however it takes practice (there is a learning curve).

You'll get lots of advice on how to shoot macro well - here's the first bit - get close to your subject, then get even closer. The minimum working distance for that lens (from the front of the lens) is about 6 inches. It's likely that you are going to want to get much closer to subjects than you imagine.

Learning to snoot can be extremely frustrating (like more than you can possiby imagine). The biggest challenge for folks is getting the light source on the subject when the light may only be partially visible through the snoot (or sometimes the snoot light may be offset from the light itself). You should be very comfortable shooting macro (very close to subjects, great body control, calm with your camera rig, etc.) before expecting to be successful with the snoot.

Last - when you do try snooting - if you're diving with a photo friendly dive operation, swallow your pride, let the guide hold your snoot (even potentially with the arm disconnected from your housing). They will focus the light on the subject, and you can then move the camera to frame the image you want. You would be surprised how many serious photographers use this method these days (very common in places like Lembeh or Anilao). Just tell the guide you want the help ahead of time - many are very used to this now (and expect it).

[Should have mentioned - I dive with 2 strobes mainly out of habit. It does allow for a few more creative lighting experiments (like backlighting a subject, etc.). The differences between one strobe and 2 (or more) can be subtle - it has more to do with removing shadows, or painting with the edges of the light from both strobes. I've had a strobe not fire or not fire accurately on several dives over the years. Shooting with one strobe (specifically for macro has never been a real issue)].

 

[Chrisk919]

- For macro these light sources are added the same way a portrait photographer has fill lights and key lights,

Yeah, I've done headshots with speedlights and packs, and I think macro draws me for this reason - the ability to create the right lighting on the subject (halo lighting, key/fill ratios).

(someone has already 3D printed a piece that fits over the top that makes gripping the red nob a little easier)

I saw that thread and have already talked to my son about printing a knob or two (he has a 3D printer).

Guide numbers underwater are essentially meaningless.

Yeah, I do see that one... and I suspect most are calculated in air, not water. It's like manufacturer's "lumens" from hand torches. I had a longer version of this post where I talked/asked about all that, but edited down to keep it brief.

given your limited previous experience shooting underwater, consider focusing on learning straight macro

Yeah, that was the plan - just use the HF-1(s) un-snooted (or without an MF-2) for a while because I'll be estimating exposure/flash-power in a new medium (water) and re-training some of my fingers for the housing.. having to aim the light as well might be a bit too much task loading.

get close to your subject, then get even closer. The minimum working distance for that lens (from the front of the lens) is about 6 inches.

When using the iPhone with limited macro, I had to learn this - way too many photos that felt like I was close enough until you looked at them later.

I'm used to a 70mm at portrait distances, and now I'm afraid I'm going to scratch the lens (or the port) even with the CFWA fisheye (Tokina 11-17).

I actually plan on ordering the light(s), arms, and floats and a CMC-2 soon to "finish" the build and start using it. I'm trying to get a couple trips to Florida in before June (Belize) and will be bringing the new rig along for shakeout dives beyond what I can do in the quarries here.

 

[Searcaigh]

It's worth watching and listening to Alex Mustard's comments on the strobes

 

[BoltSnap]

It's worth watching and listening to Alex Mustard's comments on the strobes

I watched this video when it first came and couldn't discern if Alex really liked it or was just going through the motions and not really believing what he was saying.

 

[Searcaigh]

I watched this video when it first came and couldn't discern if Alex really liked it or was just going through the motions and not really believing what he was saying.

My take is that it does the job for a strobe but doesn't quite meet the mark for a video light.

 

[WS007]

My take is that it does the job for a strobe but doesn't quite meet the mark for a video light.

I have now my first diving holidays with two HF-1s behind me (2 weeks, 24 dives in Mediterranean, Croatia/Kornati Islands). My (limited) personal experience is very well in accordance with what Alex says in the video (my take from the video was that Alex says these are very good strobes, but the Retras are better)...

First, the HF-1s are a substantial upgrade to the Z330s I used before: the strobes are strong and the quality of light temperature, with the 4500K flat diffusers attached, is very good for the mediterranean sea. The colors of the foreground, lit by the strobes, are very well and the color of the water are pleasing. Hence less color correction is required in LR. Maybe the light could be softer, but I personally did not own yet strobes that are better (I guess Alex compares to his Retra strobes).
With the 4500K flat diffusers, the entire scene is lit well, even when using a 180° diagonal fisheye (Canon 8-15mm with Sony A7R5) and the avoidance of backscatter is easier compared to the Z330s (I guess because they have dome shaped diffusers). Therefore I did not even test the 4500K dome diffusers that I have also. 4500K turned out to be the perfect color temperatutre for this environment, no colder diffusers needed at this location...

All in all it is easier to produce well lit photos compared to my previous Z330...

Regarding the size and weight, I rapidly became accustoumed to the extras and would not like to change back. I made only two macro dives, where I used two HF-1s and it worked well. In the future and in warmer waters I plan to use one HF-1 plus one MF-2 with snoot (maybe I purchase a second MF-2 in case this turns out to be the smarter setup).
In the relatively warm water (24 °C at the surface, 16 °C at 40m), the round knob to adjust intensity was zero problems. I can imagine that in our cold lakes and with dry suit and dry gloves with warming undergloves, I will be happy to use the 3D part that David kindly designed...

I only sporadically tested video, as I usually do not make video. Indeed it is annoying that the video light is yellow (because of the 4500K diffusers attached) and one has to dismantle the diffusers to get a video light that looks more normal. But real videographers have to judge about this, I am not the right person...
In any case the two 5000 lumen video lights are an upgrade to the single 2400 lumen of my Weefine focus light that I used so far for the occasional video. Probably for a real videographer the video performace of HF-1 is still poor...


Wolfgang

 

[BoltSnap]

(2 weeks, 24 dives in Mediterranean, Croatia/Kornati Islands)

Now we want a review of these places you visited with full contact information for the dive operations and accommodation you used in these places

(my take from the video was that Alex says these are very good strobes, but the Retras are better)...

In your experience, should one go for these Backscatter strobes or the Retra (newest version) assuming price isn't an issue?

I only sporadically tested video, as I usually do not make video. Indeed it is annoying that the video light is yellow (because of the 4500K diffusers attached) and one has to dismantle the diffusers to get a video light that looks more normal. But real videographers have to judge about this, I am not the right person...
In any case the two 5000 lumen video lights are an upgrade to the single 2400 lumen of my Weefine focus light that I used so far for the occasional video. Probably for a real videographer the video performace of HF-1 is still poor...

Perhaps the HF-1 video lighting capabilities are OK for the casual videographer or the still photographer who takes occasional videos but they aren't top choice for the full time or professional videographer.