New/Inexperienced Diver Out of Air

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Bogie

Contributor
Messages
583
Reaction score
32
Location
Monterey, CA.
# of dives
500 - 999
I am writing this just so others can get a learning experience and there is no intention of putting anyone down. I point out mistakes that were unexpected and surprising.

I try not to boss people around and respect others space and I assume other divers have some common sense and basic understanding of diving.

I met a couple of divers at local easy diving beach and asked to join them for an easy dive. I have dove this site over 40 times. They were newer divers and I went through safety buddy checks. They had 80 ALs and I had 100 steel so I told them to me signal half air and ascent for safety stop. Neither ever signaled.

Diver 1 said he had many dives but they were in Florida. I knew diver 1 was going to be a problem because when we descended he never could get horizontally stable so I knew I would have to watch him. I lead very slowly along the wall by the pier. I was checking on both every 15 seconds while I pointed out critters. I made the turn around at about 15 minutes into the dive because I knew diver 1 was burning through his air. I signaled to diver 1 to tell me how much air he had left in his tank. He gave me some screwed up hand signals and indicated he was he was OK. Well, I thought at least I made him look at his gauge and we were only down for 15 to 20 minutes in 30 feet of water.

I continued slowly to head back to shore and within 10 seconds he grabbed his buddy’s octo from his side and shared breathing out of it. He never signaled for air and just grabbed it. They were wrestling a bit and I grabbed them stabilized them and they held on to each other on ascent. I stayed right next to them. They stopped at 15 feet and diver 2 wanted to do a safety stop. I thought that was not wise because one was out of air and diver 2 must be low. Now they stop at 15 feet sink to 30 feet. I was so surprised that I swam down grabbed diver 1 by the tank valve and raised them back up to 15 feet. They both came up and I signaled to forget about the safety stop and signaled both to surface safely immediately. I did not know what to expect on the surface if diver 1 was going to panic.

I am a rescue diver so I knew diver 1 was out of air, zero buoyancy, zero air, and could panic so I came up from behind, inflated my bc fully to hold him up. I could barely keep him up because he was over weighted. I told him firmly to inflate his BC. He said he had no air. I said blow it up with your mouth. He grabbed the inflator hose and started blowing hard while I kept him on the surface. I could not believe what he was doing. He was blowing without pushing the deflate valve. I told him to push the valve before blowing. He pushed the inflator button and I said don’t push the inflate button push the deflate button. He pushed he deflate button let go then blew. I could not believe it. I said no, hold the deflate valve down, blow, let go, then hold down again, blow etc. His BC was finally full and he could float on his own. He was a bit macho and acted like he knew everything. Actually I think he was in partial panic and was not listening. I was ready to pull his weights.

We surface swam back to shore and I asked him what the hell happened. He said his computer stopped working during the dive and he just kept diving and ran out of air. He was 100% out of air and could not inflate his BC. I could not believe this guy. I said firmly “ if your computer stops working you surface at a safe rate immediately, even if your tank is full”. I did not ask him why he did not know how to inflate his BC or why he did not properly signal remaining air or why was he so over weighted.

Diver 2 had less than 250 psi in his tank at the end of the dive and he wanted to do a safety stop with two high breathing divers breathing from the same tank. The dive lasted 20 minutes at about 30 to 40 feet and I had more than 2000-psi left in my tank. What would have happened if I had not been there to stabilize the situation? They both could have easily run out of air. I hope they would have dumped their weights and self inflated their BCs. Diver 1 didn’t think it was that big of deal. If he had inhaled one breath of water he would have been in instant panic. He grabbed his buddy’s octo. How did he know that he had enough air?

I was shocked at what can happen on a simple dive that should have been mellow and easy.

I learn something on every dive.
I learned that you cannot assume anything when diving with new divers.
I learned that new divers can burn through 80 cu of air in a very short time.
I learned that if someone cannot give you a clear understood hand signal for remaining air, go to surface and sort it out on the surface. Insist with a new diver.
I learned that divers from warm water areas have a more difficult time in cold water with thick exposure suits, gloves, hood, weighting, etc.

I highly recommend everyone take a Rescue Diver Course.

Everyone returned safely, so that was good.
 
You thwarted Darwin, good job, I just hope they haven't nor intend to procreate.
 
I highly recommend everyone take a Rescue Diver Course.

Everyone returned safely, so that was good.

I recommend not taking on two new divers on at once :wink:
 
Nice save, Bogie. It's surprising how some people can get through a basic OW class without learning "the basics."

A critical set of pre-dive questions I ask of a newbie dive buddy is:
  • Have you done a weight check with the identical gear that you'll be using today?
  • When/where did you do the weight check?
  • How did you do the weight check?
  • How much lead weight are you using and where is it attached?
  • Have you ever used this gear before?
I ask a lot of other questions, too...but I pay particular attention to these questions with warm water divers who aren't used to wearing the extra exposure protection required for CA diving.

When Diver #1 was having "issues" orally inflating his BCD at the surface, I would have immediately ditched one of his weight pockets. There's no telling what else might have happened at that point. Heck, some BCDs exhaust air when the power inflater assembly is pulled (I'm not a fan of this feature). I've witnessed newbies man-handle the inflater assembly and inadvertently dump air when trying to orally inflate their BCDs. Really.

With regard to communicating gas supply, I prefer that newbie divers show me their gauges. This prevents the flashing of ambiguous/weird hand signals. If it's convenient during the course of the dive, every once and a while I'll try to position myself so that I can sneak a peek at their gauges. With newbies, I'll ask to see their gauges 5 minutes into a dive. I like to get a feel for how quickly they're blowing through their air and waiting until 15 minutes into the dive isn't soon enough for me.

Just a thought, but I've found that sometimes the addition of an experienced diver to a dive team can embolden newbies to do aggressive/dangerous things. Unfortunately, they gain a false sense of security that the experienced diver will "take care" of them...particularly if the diver is a trained rescue diver/DM/instructor.

Thanks for sharing your story.
 
Let me add one thing to your learned list.

Demand to know what your buddy(s) air pressure is, an OK is not acceptable. If needs be, take their SPG and look yourself. A halfassed OK is a sure sign they either don't know or care. Even buddies that I dive with frequently are ask and know darn well I insist on a responce, they get my pressure in return. I don't ask well known buddies as often unless I get an unexpected responce but they get ask just the same. I much prefer to deal with 1000 psi 15 minutes into a dive than 0 30 minutes in.
 
With as many violations of common sense these 2 new divers made, I don't want to even get started :)
One thing I will add though, is that if the depth never exceeded 30 feet, and from the story, may have been in the 20's much of the time....there would be no reason to do a safety stop --partiocularly with a low air condition. The bubble issue from nitrogen would be insignificant, and these two clowns did not appear to be well prepared or able to perform normal swimming, lot less a free ascent without air...
This is something that maybe needs more awareness on the board..the idea in a new diver that they MUST do a safety stop at all costs. Even on 50 foot dive for 30 minutes ( normal length for new diver with poor SAC rate) the safety stop is NOT a big deal, and can be ommitted much more SAFELY than the alternative of actually running out of air at 15 to 20 feet.....
Now, a "real diver" OOA at 15 to 20 feet ( out due to some wild and improbable issue:) should have zero problems doing a free ascent, and exhaling to the surface...this is an incredibly easy skill for a "real diver". But for a new diver, potentially a "never-ever" type diver, this could be a death sentence.

Remember, for years ( 60's, 70's, and 80's) divers just ascended from 60 to 100 foot dives at the speed of their smallest bubbles, and most of the time there was no stop, just surfacing. Someone here may know the stats on DCS from those years, but my guess is that the differences to today were not all that statistically significant.
Regards,
DanV
 
This is something that maybe needs more awareness on the board..the idea in a new diver that they MUST do a safety stop at all costs.
My daughter used to be like that before she started diving with me. In deference to her I do the safety stop with her and in deference to me she no longer sees it as a Deco obligation. The discussions between the sentences are best kept in the family.


Remember, for years ( 60's, 70's, and 80's) divers just ascended from 60 to 100 foot dives at the speed of their smallest bubbles, and most of the time there was no stop, just surfacing. Someone here may know the stats on DCS from those years, but my guess is that the differences to today were not all that statistically significant.

The ascent rate then was 60'/min to the surface, my computer is training me to the new 30'/min. The Tables then gave 5min more NDL time at 60' (more NDL time at all depths).
I dove those tables till my computer in 2004 and was only bent once which was on me, not the tables. I figure with all those changes the safety stop is redundant, however when I am buddied with a safety stop diver I do the stop unless there is a problem.

Bob
------------------------------
I may be old but I’m not dead yet.
 
I think one of the biggest lessons from this dive was that you found out how fast a new diver can blow through gas. I have been absolutely FLOORED at this on a couple of occasions. I am reminded of a dive I did with someone no bigger than I am, diving an LP95, who blew through more than half her tank in 20 minutes, never having gotten any deeper than 30 feet. I learned that day to watch people's pressure far more carefully than I would have believed necessary.

I'm also a proponent of looking at the gauge, especially if I don't understand the signals I'm getting from the other diver. In this case, checking his gauge would have told you it wasn't working and could have allowed aborting the dive before he ran out of gas.

It would be my guess that virtually NONE of us practices oral inflation as often as we ought. It's a surprisingly difficult skill for students to get in the pool. I know an instructor who orally inflates his BC at the end of every dive, just to stay facile with it -- it's not a bad idea.

Kudos to you for being there. I probably would have thought twice about taking on two novice divers, myself, but if you hadn't, you might have been writing an accident report, instead.
 
:shocked2: Wow! How very scary! Reading all of these threads really makes me glad I took a refresher course! I can't believe how much I had forgot in 3 years. And threads like this really make me appreciate the risks involved in diving, and help me to anticipate what could go wrong.

It's amazing you were there that day at that specific time and decided to approach those guys. You saved their lives! Amazing!
 
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I think one of the biggest lessons from this dive was that you found out how fast a new diver can blow through gas. I have been absolutely FLOORED at this on a couple of occasions.
YUP! I had a BIG guy blow through an AL80 in 25 feet of water in 17 minutes. We were working on skills as he was a very new diver. The next time out he had an HP130 and our pre-dive discussed turn pressures. We swam out and began skills and drills again, this time focusing on buoyancy. When I checked his gauge he was past turn pressure :shocked2: We turned around and were back inside the cove in 30 ft of water when I asked him his pressure. With a puzzled look on his face I grabbed his AI that read 0000. Needless to say he had a long hose shoved at him immediately, and we safely ascended to the surface at a relaxed pace. Turns out his computer had a 500 psi reserve :shakehead: I can't remember the times on that short dive but I had only used 1,000 psi vs his 3,000 psi.

Cold water newbies = LOTS of air.

Sometimes doing skills as simple as filling our BC's with our mouths could make the difference between life or death. We all need to continually practice these skills so they remain second nature. Our local dive club did a bunch of skills dives together at a lake once. The chaos that followed would have been funny, except in real life it could have been fatal. Practice makes perfect, or at least functionable.
 

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