New DSS Torus Wing...
- Thread starter zach5150
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Just ordered another singles rig with the Torus 35 for myself. I will be giving my other DSS singles rig to my son. Looking forward to the new BP/W.
Mitten Diver:
You know, my Dad always tells me how good of a son I am....I think there's enough of me to go around if you're looking for extra kids to give equipment to!!
That's really cool that ya'll are both divers. I'm trying to get my Dad interested. He doesnt feel he's a very good swimmer, so the first objective is to get him feeling better about that...then (the BIGGER hurdle) I gotta get him to actually spend some money on gear! hehe
halocline
Contributor
*Floater*:
Dive-rite
zach5150:You know, my Dad always tells me how good of a son I am....I think there's enough of me to go around if you're looking for extra kids to give equipment to!!
That's really cool that ya'll are both divers. I'm trying to get my Dad interested. He doesnt feel he's a very good swimmer, so the first objective is to get him feeling better about that...then (the BIGGER hurdle) I gotta get him to actually spend some money on gear! hehe
I always wanted a big family, but with a 16 year old and a 1 year old finances are not what they used to be. Besides how can I justify spending the additional funds when I am in the market for 2 more 130's and 2 more 100's to cover the weekend boat diving here in the Great Lakes? Keep working on your dad and remind him that it is only money, heck it grows on trees in the back yard or did it appear when I used the crapper?
*Floater*
Contributor
FWIW, here are my thoughts on the ease of venting donuts. I believe it depends on how full the wing is (size), how wide it is, shape (circular ends vs. non-circular) and placement of the rear dump.
If the wing is completely full then it will dump in any position (no need to shift gas) and even a horseshoe wing will balance out automatially if horizontal after such a dump. The fuller the wing is the easier it is to vent, and the less tilt is required to shift that gas for venting or for balancing it out after venting. Therefore, all else equal, the smaller the wing is the fuller it'll be at any given point relative to a bigger wing and therefore the easier it'll be to vent. Of course it has to be big enough to still meet the diver's lift needs.
Then there's width. The wider the wing, the higher the air pockets will be on the sides when the diver is in horizontal trim and the wing is partially full. The higher the air pockets the greater the tilt required to bring the gas down to the rear where it can be shifted or balanced out. Therefore the narrower the wing, the better imo, as long as it still meets the diver's needs to have slightly different amounts of gas on each side at times to accomodate carrying more weight on one side than the other (can light, stages, etc.).
As for shape, it would seem to me that sharp corners can make for air traps when tilting the body to shift gas. If you imagine the gas inside the wing as it shifts when you move your butt up, then it would seem to me that a circular shape at the ends facilites the movement.
The placement of the dump valve is an obvious contributor to the ease of venting or lack thereof. It should be placed where the air pocket will be when the diver tilts his butt up and pulls the cord.
Anyway, these are just my thoughts based on how I imagine the gas moves inside the wings and on about 75 dives on four different wings (two horseshoes, two donuts), and most of them were using doubles, so it's not a huge sample and I may still change my mind as I gain more experience. In the end, what works works, and that's why I'm always interested to hear feedback on the different models out there.
cool_hardware52
Contributor
evad:
I covered this many many tmes before, and I have to wonder if you are just trolling, but in short:
Zipper do fail, anybody ever have a wetsuit zipper fail?
Zippers make a stiff spot any sewn article.
It's possible, although unlikely, that the bladder can be pinched in a zipper.
Zippers take up space that can be used for other things, like camband windows.
Zippers require that both sides of the garment or wing or luggage be the same lenght, you can't really have a zipper where each side is a different lenght. This imposes some constraints on the design.
Zippers add cost.
Other than access to the bladder, what do you percieve to be the benefits of a 360 zipper?
Tobin
LG Diver
Guest
Hi Tobin. No troll here, this is an honest question.
Gosh, this seems like a biggie to me. I think you've stated in other posts (please correct me if I'm mis-stating) that the most common cause of bladder punctures is "pinch flats" where a hard edge (most likely the bp) pinches the bladder and punctures it. Are you saying that your new bladder material is impervious to pinch flats? The ability to unzip a zipper, throw some glue or a tire patch or whatever on there, and be diving again in 5 minutes vs having to send the bladder back to the manufacturer seems like a really big advantage to me.
cool_hardware52:
Gosh, this seems like a biggie to me. I think you've stated in other posts (please correct me if I'm mis-stating) that the most common cause of bladder punctures is "pinch flats" where a hard edge (most likely the bp) pinches the bladder and punctures it. Are you saying that your new bladder material is impervious to pinch flats? The ability to unzip a zipper, throw some glue or a tire patch or whatever on there, and be diving again in 5 minutes vs having to send the bladder back to the manufacturer seems like a really big advantage to me.
cool_hardware52
Contributor
LG Diver:
Nothing is "impervious" to damage. I have never made or implied that our new bladder material is. Our new 22 mil bladder material is tougher, by a large margin, than than the 12 mil commonly used.
My expectation is that the 22 mil material will not often suffer the type of minor damage that can be repaired in the field with a little glue.
It is quite possible that even with a zipper you may not be able to access the portion of the bladder that is damaged, because the Fill hose and OPV fittings are in the way. Without the tools to remove these fittings parts of the bladder can be very difficult to impossible to access, few divers carry these tools. In short even with a zipper and glue or patches some percentage of damaged bladders will be unrepairable in the field.
One need also consider the advisability of diving with a field repaired bladder, is it safe, or should it be inspected, repaired or replaced by professionals? I know that some field repairs are sound, but are 100%?
If the bladder suffers major damage, it can be replaced, but that will require returning it to us. In practice most bladder replacements are returns because most users lack both a spare bladder and the tools required.
Tobin
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