NEW DIVERS ONLY! (< 50 dives) - What do you expect from a DiveMaster?

[dwatts]

Outside of a training-type dive, I believe that the DM shouldn'thave to be babysitting newer divers and making sure they don't hurt themselves.

By the same token, however, I think that a lot of the situations that people have been griping about on other threads regarding DMs could have been avoided with a proper dive brief, including some of the highlights of the dive. I think, especially for newer divers, we don't know what we don't know. Examples include some of these deep, narrow swim-throughs. If I don't know that the DM is planning on leading the group there, and surprise there it is, this can cause a situation. But if it is briefed that if those don't feel comfortable can swim over, or whatever, this can be benefitial to both those that want to do it and the others know how they can avoid a situation they don't feel comfortable with.

By the same token, we all have a responsibility to ourselves, and our loved ones, to know what we're getting ourselves into. If we don't feel we know enough about the dive site, or we're not comfortable with the conditions for whatever reason, we should SPEAK UP!

As you stated (I added the emphasis above), newbies don't know what we don't know. So then how are we supposed to SPEAK UP? In other words, on my first dozen dives I never worried about navigation..there was someone taking care of that. One I "learned" more I realized that it is ultimately MY responsibility to be sure I can get back to the boat. So now I make sure I know how to get back.

 

[Dtaine]

Outside of a training-type dive, I believe that the DM shouldn'thave to be babysitting newer divers and making sure they don't hurt themselves.

By the same token, however, I think that a lot of the situations that people have been griping about on other threads regarding DMs could have been avoided with a proper dive brief, including some of the highlights of the dive. I think, especially for newer divers, we don't know what we don't know. Examples include some of these deep, narrow swim-throughs. If I don't know that the DM is planning on leading the group there, and surprise there it is, this can cause a situation. But if it is briefed that if those don't feel comfortable can swim over, or whatever, this can be benefitial to both those that want to do it and the others know how they can avoid a situation they don't feel comfortable with.

By the same token, we all have a responsibility to ourselves, and our loved ones, to know what we're getting ourselves into. If we don't feel we know enough about the dive site, or we're not comfortable with the conditions for whatever reason, we should SPEAK UP!

As you stated (I added the emphasis above), newbies don't know what we don't know. So then how are we supposed to SPEAK UP? In other words, on my first dozen dives I never worried about navigation..there was someone taking care of that. One I "learned" more I realized that it is ultimately MY responsibility to be sure I can get back to the boat. So now I make sure I know how to get back.

I believe he meant that if you're uncomfortable about something you shouldn't just not mention it to the DM and follow him on the dive, but rather you should say something about it beforehand. Sure, a lot of new divers don't recognize certain risks, but those that do and are uncomfortable with them, but don't bring it up are more of a danger to themselves and the team. I'd rather have a buddy turn a dive because of discomfort then have one continue a dive anxious and unnerved the entire time without my knowledge.

 

[dwatts]

I believe he meant that if you're uncomfortable about something you shouldn't just not mention it to the DM and follow him on the dive, but rather you should say something about it beforehand. Sure, a lot of new divers don't recognize certain risks, but those that do and are uncomfortable with them, but don't bring it up are more of a danger to themselves and the team. I'd rather have a buddy turn a dive because of discomfort then have one continue a dive anxious and unnerved the entire time without my knowledge.

OK, that I completly understand and agree with. My wife was certified at the same time I was and she is a very nervous person by nature. Every dive that she has done I was there too. She is MUCH better at asking (thinking of) question than I am.

 

[SDiggy]

I believe he meant that if you're uncomfortable about something you shouldn't just not mention it to the DM and follow him on the dive, but rather you should say something about it beforehand. Sure, a lot of new divers don't recognize certain risks, but those that do and are uncomfortable with them, but don't bring it up are more of a danger to themselves and the team. I'd rather have a buddy turn a dive because of discomfort then have one continue a dive anxious and unnerved the entire time without my knowledge.

That's exactly what I'm refering to.

 

[Dtaine]

I have just under 30 dives all in tropical waters: Keys and Grand Caymen. I like a DM who is NOT arrogant (I've only heard stories); who will watch me and help me stay safe but not smother me. As long as I appear to be under control the DM should watch.

As a new diver I think the DM should be aware of the airhogs (like most newbies are) and be aware of their air levels. On my very first post-OW dive (in Key Largo) we dove the Spiegle Grove. Yeah, I know it's deep but I wanted to go and the boat was full of instructors and DMs (from our shop) so they let me go. Anyway, I was paired with one of the boat's DMs. He led me around the ship. When I got to 1500psi I told him; he signal OK and we kept going. I assumed we were heading back toward the line. I told the DM severl times about my air level. At 1000psi we seemed to still be enjoying the ship and I was getting VERY anxious! I'm sure my breathing increased.

We finally headed up the line...did our safety stop. When I got on the boat I had less than 200psi remaining. That was too close for a brand spankin' new diver!

Oh, and I don't need anyone to tell me how it's every diver's responsibility. New divers simply don't any better. I've learned a lot since then and while I still have a lot more to learn...I know must more about keeping myself safe.

I'll follow the DM...I want them to point out cool stuff...but I damn sure will keep track of where the boat is in the future. And when I get low I'm heading back...with or without the DM.

A similar thing happened to me on a dive of the Sheri-Lyn, only not with a DM, and on the subsequent dive (two tank trip, same buddy both dives). My buddy was just ignoring my air signals and never once responded to my signal for him to tell me his air pressure (and yes, he knew what I meant, we "discussed" it later). We had a heated argument about it after getting off the boat and simply put I'll never dive with him again.

It's good to go over signals with DM's and buddies and to agree on turn pressure before the dive, otherwise you can be in for a surprise, not everyone seems to think to begin the ascent when their buddy signals low on air.

 

[oreocookie]

for me, I think that "keeping me safe" kinda includes watching my air and depth while at the same time making sure I do it myself. While I have no tropical experience as of yet (though SO looking forward to that), from fairly low viz local lakes I realise that managing depth without a visual reference just doesn't work too well, so if I start focusing too much on something that makes me lose that visual I might end up who knows where (navigation during cert dives turned into an impromto 25 foot very slow ascent). While I don't want them to ask for air pressure every 3 seconds, I think that I'd appreciate occasional prompts, at least until I have a pretty good idea of what my air consumption is like at a given depth in a given situation.

I also want a good briefing and for them to point out all the cool stuff that I'd probably otherwise miss. I don't want to just jump into an abyss, I want to have an idea what to watch out for (good and bad) so that I can be appropriately excited and/or cautious about things I may not have encountered before. Then I want to see the cool stuff they've just told me about if it's there to be seen, I want to see that fish hiding in the coral or that rock that really isn't a rock. I'm still amazed at the fact that I'm even here at all so it's likely that I'll only notice things that occur in large sizes or large numbers... and then maybe be a bit disturbed by things occuring in large sizes and numbers at the same time.

 

[Coldwater_Canuck]

In my opinion, this is what I'd expect
DM should show me cool stuff: Depends on the situation, but if they know the site and are diving with you, then definately

DM should help keep me safe: Although I don't want a babysitter, if they are diving with you, I'd expect to be at least a little safer if something goes wrong, etc.

DM should not exceed my training: This one I won't say I absolutely agree with, but the general principle I do. For example, if there's something really cool at 70 feet and the DM, in their professional opinion, believes it is safe to take open water certified divers there and discusses it in the dive brief, then I can trust their judgement. However, in general, training should be in the back of their minds if possible.

DM should give a dive briefing: This is a given: whether formal or informal, a decent briefing could avoid many other problems.

I also wasn't sure about a couple. The one about watching depth, while I'd hope that the divemaster would point it out if we were going below our planned depth, I know this is my responsibility unless he's leading (in which case, it would be worded "watch his depth" not "watch my depth". Also, for checking air, if the Divemaster has the responsibility for calling the dive, then I guess I'd expect them to be asking about air pressure to know when to call the dive, but I don't expect this as a safety measure. So these two would be maybes.

As for helping to setup equipment, while I'd hope the DM would help out in the same capacity anyone else on a boat, shore, etc. would if asked if they're just standing around, a new diver and their buddy should be self sufficient in this regard. Also while I have no issue with the DM staying on the boat, I don't "expect" this: it really depends on the situation.

 

[TonyW388]

DM should show me cool stuff -Sure if he is getting in the water for a dive with me, why not?

DM should watch my air pressure -No, I think that is your responsibility as a diver to be able to manage your gas. You have to look out for yourself and your buddy.(If you are low on gas that is your fault for not checking on your gas and letting someone know you are getting low on air.)
-If the DM is in the water with me, and leading me on a guided tour he can check to see what my and my buddy's gas pressure is. That way he can see how we are doing on gas and to be planning ahead on what we might see and what we might not. He can figure out if we need to turn the dive sooner or later.

DM should watch my depth - Same as above. It is your responsibility to watch your depth. It you do not feel comfortable let the dive master know if he is leading you around. (preferably before the dive.)

DM should help keep me safe - This is a yes! I think if the dive master remains on the boat while divers are in the water he should be bubble watching. If he is in the water, I would hope that there is a good dive plan in place to keep everyone comfortable/safe on the dive. I also believe that you are responible for yourself! You know what makes you warm and fuzzy and what makes you cringe. If the DM is headed somewhere you do not like, let him/her know. This usually works! ---->

DM should not exceed my training -The dive op/DM usually ask me about my training before I get on the boat. That way they have an idea of my training and comfort level. I also ask them before I get to the boat for a list of sites and what are the posssibilites for the dive sites that day. The more info I know the better I can plan.

DM should give a dive briefing - Yes, I would like to know a little more about the site. Even if the DM is getting in the water with me. I would like to know what is about the avg depth of the area, how is the vis, time limits, method of entry/exit and current. Plus anything else I might see or need to be briefed on. (Ex. If you see a hungry shark, you do not have to out swim him, you only have to out swim your dive buddy!)

DM should help me setup my equipment - No, I can set up and check the equipment. If he fills like I am having issues it does not hurt my feelings if he ask if I need help.( I am not perfect.)

DM should stay on the boat - It depends on what you are paying him for. If you pay him for a guided tour then that is what you should get. If you are comfortable with your buddy and yourself and can do the dive with him on the boat then I say go for it.

I am no way an expert on diving! I like to learn and do as much as possible own my own within my limits. I also know when I need help. The day I stop learning from other people about diving is the day I find a new hobby. We as divers have to be responsible for ourselves first and our dive buddies.

Safe Diving,
Tony

 

[Winterpeg]

I have dived with 5 different ops while on vacation in the past 2 years, even though I have only 17 logged dives total (including my OW test dives). So I have seen a lot of variation in dive ops for someone with as little experience as I have.
I don't expect to be babysat (I can watch my own air and depth), but when going out to an unfamiliar area with inexperienced divers, I would expect that the DM should keep groups of divers small (no more than 4-6 per divemaster) and stay relatively close to them. We had an unsettling experience last year in the Bahamas when a DM got "lost" underwater looking for a wreck he was supposed to show us, and he took off way ahead of the group looking for it. No one could keep up with him, and it was nerve-wracking trying to figure out what the hell he was doing. We never did see the wreck and only found out after we surfaced what the problem was.
I can also watch my own depth, but it is very worrying for a brand new diver to have to decide whether to surface alone when the DM knowingly goes too deep, or to stick with the DM and group - which is safer? This occurred during my OW test dives in Puerto Vallarta - the DM had vacationing divers in the group the day he was supposed to test me so went off exploring below 80 feet and did swim-throughs. (He never did complete my test properly and I ended up redoing it for my own satisfaction back in Canada.)
Because of my inexperience, every dive has "cool stuff", so I didn't vote for that option. I do expect the DM to point things out though.
One of our best dives was on what many SB's would disparagingly call a "cattle boat". It was in the Virgin Islands to dive the Rhone. The boat held 24 divers, but there was adaquate staff and they were very organized, divided the divers into small groups, accounted for everyone, had a detailed pre-dive debriefing complete with white boards diagrams pointing out where we were heading and what we could expect to see. They also offered alternate options ahead of time to anyone who wasn't comfortable with the depth or going through a swim-through. I would definitely dive with them again.
Also, as a new diver, I do not have all my own equipment yet, and I expect the rental gear to be functional and in good repair. We had problems with that in the Bahamas, too (leaky hoses do not inspire confidence).
We are headed to SCC in 6 weeks so all of these concerns are on my mind now. But I feel that by reputation from SBer's we should be in good hands.

 

[Acanthurus]

Interesting thread....We have just returned from Austrralia where I quadrupled my dive count (6 incl cert dives to 24) We spent 5 days on a liveaboard doing 2 to 4 dives per day. Each dive was preceded by a thorough dive brief which I feel is mandatory. We did not do all dives with a DM since my husband is very experienced and many dives he was comfortable without one.

I expect a DM to act like my buddy in a sense which includes checking my air, helping me keep safe and not exceed my training. Of course I have full responsibility for my own safety but if either my buddy or DM are concerned I expect them to tell me.

Showing me cool stuff is a no brainer!