New Divers, Comment on Padi OW Course

[RonDawg]

This is the level every newly certified open water diver should be at. I believe that it is often better for a newly certified diver to dive with another newbie for 2 reasons. 1 gain confidence in your ablilities 2. not be pressured to dive beyond your comfort zone.
Keep it up Vinny

cheers,

As a recently certified diver myself, I disagree that it's better to go out with another newbie. Yeah you'll both have the same experience, and that you won't be pressured to dive beyond your abilities, but what if one or both of you have an emergency? Worse, what if both of you fail to recognize an emergent situation, simply because of your lack of experience?

About the only time I'll dive with another newbie is someone from my O/W class, in places where we've done our checkout dives. I've already seen that person in action in the water, and know what he/she is capable of. If I'm diving somewhere where I've never been, and/or in conditions I've never experienced before, I want to make sure I have an experienced person with me.

The trick is to dive with someone who's experienced, but is not going to pressure you into doing things you aren't comfortable with. Whenever I've been paired up with an unfamiliar dive buddy, I make it very clear to him (they've all been male so far) about my experience level, what I'm comfortable with, and what problems I've had in the past (such as my buoyancy troubles when I first tried cold water diving). A good dive buddy will listen to you, a bad one will pretend to do so but ignore it all once you do that giant stride entry. And I've had both in my limited diving experience.

 

[wedivebc]

As a recently certified diver myself, I disagree that it's better to go out with another newbie. Yeah you'll both have the same experience, and that you won't be pressured to dive beyond your abilities, but what if one or both of you have an emergency? Worse, what if both of you fail to recognize an emergent situation, simply because of your lack of experience?

About the only time I'll dive with another newbie is someone from my O/W class, in places where we've done our checkout dives. I've already seen that person in action in the water, and know what he/she is capable of. If I'm diving somewhere where I've never been, and/or in conditions I've never experienced before, I want to make sure I have an experienced person with me.

.

That is exactly the situation I was referring to.
If you are not comfortable in the water without someone holding your hand then are you really a trained diver? Many c-card carrying divers feel like they were rushed through their training and are not comfortable unless they are with a more experienced diver. This concerns me.

 

[MikeFerrara]

That is exactly the situation I was referring to.
If you are not comfortable in the water without someone holding your hand then are you really a trained diver? Many c-card carrying divers feel like they were rushed through their training and are not comfortable unless they are with a more experienced diver. This concerns me.

I agree.

In addition, in my time teaching, I have continually been frustrated by how often new divers are taken on deep dives or even inside wrecks by resort dive leaders. These are dives that most of these new divers would never do on their own and some how they feel safe doing it following a guide (relying on them for planning and safety). A guide can only do so much for you once trouble starts not to mention the fact that the guide may not be the great diver that you think they are.

As a result the subject of these kinds of trust-me dives gets a good deal of attention in any class I teach.

If you don't feel prepared to complete a dive without the guide then, IMO, you have no business on that dive.

 

[AbsolutWeezer6]

I think what webdivebc makes alot of sense that divers are rushed through training. My course was very different from the way most people take the OW course. I had it in conjunction with my Uni, and becasue of scheduleing it took us almost 3 months. 4 classes which many times ran to 4 hours, a couple of 1-2 hour meetings to either prepare for dives or fill out our log books. We also had our 8 hour pool dive two weeks after classes ended and about 2 weeks before the open water dives. Then we have two week inbetween our 2 sets of open water dives. Because it was so spread out I think it really helped us think about diving for alot longer period of time, so instead of being certified in 4-5 days then frogeting about it for 4 months before diving again, we really had it in our minds for a loing time which I think helped alot. Again, just my opinon.

Cheers,
Vinny

 

[Scubakevdm]

Longer isn't always the answer. Sometimes something has to be done different.

So, what you're saying Mike is that its not how long your course is, its how you use it.

 

[GrierHPharmD]

That is exactly the situation I was referring to.
If you are not comfortable in the water without someone holding your hand then are you really a trained diver? Many c-card carrying divers feel like they were rushed through their training and are not comfortable unless they are with a more experienced diver. This concerns me.

My wife and I trained together and did our first dives exclusively with each other. As a result, we became reasonably self-sufficient. However, because we never dove with other, more experienced divers, we allowed ourselves to be talked into taking a dive just after our AOW course (lifetime dive 17) to a deep wreck in heavy seas. We were lucky to return to the boat safely, but she has stopped diving as a result of the incident.

A few dives with some seasoned buddies might have helped us understand our limitations better and helped us make the more intelligent decision of calling the dive.

Now, I dive with buddies who have a wide range of experience, from novices to many hundreds of dive experts. I don't know which I learn more from...

 

[MikeFerrara]

So, what you're saying Mike is that its not how long your course is, its how you use it.

I'm saying that it's not how long the class is but the content and mastery of that content that's important.

I think a class has to be long enough. If the content is poor you won't get anyplace no matter how long the class is.

 

[BlueB]

my wife and I just finished or OW cert through PADI. We really didn't gel with the class and pool instructor and were relieved to find our open water instructor was someone we liked.

We now feel very confident of our abilities to dive WITH a DM or experienced divers. Thanks to our local lake, we also feel confident in near zero visibility as well. I think over all, we got our money's worth and we are happy. We are also quite aware of the need for more experience and the need to constantly repeat skills.

 

[zboss]

No, you won't. But you should be able to safetly conduct an OW dive in the conditions you were trained in. The OW card is a permit to learn, you cannot expect to master diving in 4 OW dives and some pool time.

Yea, OW classes should be much longer. Would you pay $1500 for one? Expectations and reality don't always come together.

Welcome to SB and diving.

MD

This is going to sound harsh but, after all, it's only my opinion:

Like any class environment you have the fast learners and the slow learners. For the most part, everyone I learned to dive with and continue to dive with are intelligent (and athletic) people.

Would it be fair to slow down the whole class so that the one slow learner in the group can get more class time in?

If you need more time in the pool you always have the opportunity to say "I need more time" and at the same time the instructor and store has the right to ask for more dollars. However, most instructors will take the time they have available and help out at no additional cost.

Good instructors can usually pick out the problem students early in the pool sessions - to that end instructors have an additional responsibility to suggest more pool work to those that need it. BUT - most stores that I know of offer one-on-one training if that is what you need/desire.

There are a lot of options no matter how to dice the PADI/NAUI/SSI/ET AL pie; nobody is locking anyone into anything.

 

[MechDiver]

Like any class environment you have the fast learners and the slow learners. For the most part, everyone I learned to dive with and continue to dive with are intelligent (and athletic) people.

Would it be fair to slow down the whole class so that the one slow learner in the group can get more class time in?

As you used my post to quote, I'll respond by saying that, in relation to that post, you're talking apples and oranges.

I'm not going to get into the OW class thing as we've beat that to death ad nauseum, but my post did not mean what you reponded.

MD