New Divers Beware: Sketchy dive shop in Cozumel puts profits over safety

[Texas Torpedo]

I hope that if people stumble across this thread, they read further into it and don't avoid the dive shop because of the first post

Good point. Adding a direct link to the rebuttal post at the end of the OP's so members & guests don't have to wade deep into the thread to hear from Deborah / Deep Blue.

 

[cvchief]

Have we been reading the same thread????

I would say that is is exactly the opposite (at least in this case). People IMMEDIATELY assumed that the perception/recollection/ "facts" were exactly as stated by the OP and jumped all over the shop and DM before hearing facts. I think Devon Diver did a fine job of offereing up alternative scenarios and possibilities as well as explaining that his PERCEPTION of danger may not have truly meant that he WAS in danger. New divers are nervous and scared to begin with, so things that are normal or SOP may be intensified by the new diver.

Also as pointed out by Devon Diver, during the OW dives, the student is to APPLY and DEMONSTRATE on his OWN the skills previously taught in the course. Yes, the instructor is still there to supervise and to be there in case anything goes wrong, but he is not to "hand hold". I was not there so I cannot confirm in fact what did or did not happen, but after hearing both sides and now knowing who the instructor was - the OP's version sounds less and less believable/accurate about the true events.

I am not saying that the OP was "lying" - but it did sound to me immediately as if some of the things he claimed were just way too out there to be true. Now that I know who the instructor was - I can recognize more discrepancies in the OP's post. Rafael IS IN FACT one of the most by the book instructors I have ever known. I have known Rafael for many years and he has ALWAYS been this way and still is...in fact I respect the fact that he stays on top of the standards and follows them religiously.

I find it very interesting now that the OP has not come back to the thread since his story has a rebuttle by both the shop owner and other divers that were on the dive. Also interesting, but not surprising that the grievance was aired FIRST on the internet and never to the shop/instructor being accused. That is very poor form and solves nothing.

Hearing people report back on your OP, I think you do more than simply supervise a diver in a class. To me, DevonDiver seemed to be saying, 'show up for your 4 checkout dives and we will be there watching you do it.' It sounds so formal, detached and less comforting.

Deep Blue in answering the charge, I think, is reporting a MUCH more involved instructor than a 'go along and watch' instructor. She didn't say what they gave was enough, she said they gave alot more attention than they were accused of. I think alot of nervous nellies coming for their four checkout dives need and want more than someone observing and grading them. From what I have heard, you give them that extra level of service. Maybe the book doesn't require that and maybe divers should be more independent and confident when they arrive to do 4 dives, but that isn't the case with the way the training happens in the real world is it?

 

[kwinter]

Good point. Adding a direct link to the rebuttal post at the end of the OP's so members & guests don't have to wade deep into the thread to hear from Deborah / Deep Blue.

I agree. Most people don't read all the way through and just take the OP statement as gospel. In fact, that is my biggest problem with Scubaboard and why I don't read or post much. The OP posted less than 2 days ago. There are now over 120 posts in the 13 pages of this thread. And I'm sorry if this offends, but most of them were uninformed or ill-advised postings in a setting like this.

When I read the first post, I immediately doubted the "facts" as presented. Not because I am familiar with Deep Blue (although I haven't done any diving with them in a few years), but because it just didn't make sense. If something sounds ridiculous, it usually is. That doesn't mean it isn't true, but it should be viewed with skepticism. Ask questions rather than making judgements based on a new diver's very first post. The more someone berates and operator or instructor, the more skeptical I become that this isn't just someone with a grudge. Also keep in mind that being a brand new diver, the OP may be merely mistaken. The OP stated that he "signaled" to the instructor about his equalization problems. Why would people immediately assume that the communication was accurate? Maybe it was cynical, but I doubted whether someone just completing his e-learning course really knew or used the correct hand signals to indicate a problem. And this was confirmed by another person present who said that all she saw was repeated ok signals.

Also, please try to separate a captain from a boat from a dive operation from a DM from an instructor. There are good and bad ones of all these things somewhere. But if a captain does something you don't like, don't immediately tarnish the whole dive op. Same thing for the instructor. And I don't know what to say about Jim L. who paints the entire island of Cozumel as one to be avoided for OW cert dives. He is entitled to his opinion, which is probably based on a very few isolated incidents. Yet his prejudice is spewed all over hyperspace and people take it as gospel.

Folks, what you post online affects other people in ways you can't possibly imagine. The OP, bvana1, has no business diving because he is a known convicted sex offender and drug dealer. And if I had his name, I would post it here just so he can see what the power of an internet forum is. Maybe he could successfully refute it after 13 pages and 120 posts. But I don't think he would appreciate the vast number of people who would believe it initially. Thank you to the mods who put the link to Deborah's post at the top of the thread.

My userid is my name. I don't hide behind a disguise. I am not a sock puppet, and I will gladly sign this post.

Ken Winter

 

[bvana1]

In response to Deborah (the owner of Deep Blue) and her post of over 800 words, the two words that I was hoping to see that were absent were "we're sorry". Seriously, all this could have been avoided had any member of her staff had just said "we're sorry you injured your ears". Hell, Gary could have easily sent a follow up email last week expressing some remorse and showing a little concern. "Are you ok? Hope you had a good time" etc. That would NOT have been any admission of guilt just I feel, good customer service. Obviously, my expectations are too high. Even when I was still in CZM I would drop by the office (I had no phone so I couldn't call Deb) and check in to update your staff with my status. For you to proudly say that you didn't charge me for a cancellation, that was big of you. Maybe, your staff should have shown prudence and said "you're not diving with us until your ears clear up" ?! Instead of reccommending I get Sudafed and nasal spray decongestant. This is just my opinion and have a different perspective of customer service. Since ear injuries make up about 1/3 of diving accidents or injuries I really wish the idea of "equalize often" had been stressed more but I also should have apparently been focused on that much more than I did that day and throughout my training. Another question to you Deb, in the E-Learning course a lot of time was spent on Dive Planning, Dive Tables and the RDP, why was it not mentioned and why was there no dive planning or any hands on review? Is this SOP? Seriously, I'd like to know. This morning I withdrew my complaint from PADI and have requested that my other posts be deleted as well. My apologies to you and R.


In response to scubapa75. I'm sorry my dive affected yours. I could tell you were irritated with my presence as soon as you new I was a newbie. We were discussing our dive background and training. I mentioned the E-Learning course I took, Not "bragging" just discussing. And if the E-Learning is so "pathetic" why does PADI offer it at all? I got 100's on most of the tests and 90% on the final. I felt I had learned the basics pretty well. "the beginning of both dives was me (and DON)...hanging out on the sandy bottom while you took 20 minutes to descend Then you blew through all your air in the next 20 minutes....while you were holding hands with the dive instructor because you were scared." A couple things about that. The idea that my oxygen usuage is any of your business is odd to me. If my dive negatively affected your's who's fault is that? I would be pissed too, but not at the beginner diver. Also, Rafael MADE me hang on to him so I could share his Oxygen. Good for him. "You should stay out of the water and off the island." Who the hell are you to say that you arrogant &*%?!

My point in starting this forum thread was to warn other newbies like me to be careful who they choose to learn to dive with. It sounds like in the court of public opinion here, I was the one at fault, should have known better and should have acted more professionally. I accept that. Again, had I known THEN what I know NOW everything, including the method of training I chose, I would have done differently. So If I could write the opening post again it would go like this...

New Divers Beware: Choose your Dive Shop Carefully.

Don't let what happened to me happen to you. I was finishing up my Open Water certification with a dive shop in Cozumel MX. I was on my "check out" dive in pretty deep water (Palancar Reef) and was having trouble equalizing my ears. Here's where I went wrong. Even though my ears were not clearing I continued to force them and continued the dive. At differnt points I signalled to my instructor that I could not equalize my ears. At other times they seemed "ok" and I signalled that to him as well. When we finally surfaced after the dive I coughed up some serious blood and my head was pounding. He seemed unconcerned and said it was "normal". Although coughing up blood (bloody nose) is not "normal" it turns out it's not all that uncommon either.


Regardless, after an hour we did another dive (60 ft.) so I could get certified. I should've probably refused this but I dove anyway. My fault. Same thing happened again. That was two weeks ago. I couldn't dive the remainder of the trip, because my ears hurt so bad and couldn't "POP" them. The dive staff and management offered no apologies or any words of regret. Still do this day. They just said "to take some Sudafed and decongestant". I went to the DAN clinic in CZM and the ear specialist said I had suffered Barotrauma.

My Ears are finally showing signs of improvement and I should have no permanent damage. I did however lose 3 days of diving that I'll never get back. There's two points to take away from this.
One: read/learn about equalizing your ears well and practice sound diving procedures regarding this. This is critical for all divers, especially new ones.

Two: Choose your dive shop carefully. They're not all the same. It's like one of the those office machines that does everything. Printer, copier and fax machine. It never does any of those all that well but it will do them all. In other words, some dive Operators excell in instruction. Others cater to the more experienced divers and act as a dive guide service providing equipment and specific dive site requests. Then there are others that try to do it all. I chose the wrong one. If you're learning to dive, learn in the states where there should be no language barrier and possibly higher levels of customer service. Get some references from people you trust, who know what they're doing underwater.

 

[SCUBAPA75]

In response to scubapa75. I'm sorry my dive affected yours. I could tell you were irritated with my presence as soon as you new I was a newbie. We were discussing our dive background and training. I mentioned the E-Learning course I took, Not "bragging" just discussing. And if the E-Learning is so "pathetic" why does PADI offer it at all? I got 100's on most of the tests and 90% on the final. I felt I had learned the basics pretty well. "the beginning of both dives was me (and DON)...hanging out on the sandy bottom while you took 20 minutes to descend Then you blew through all your air in the next 20 minutes....while you were holding hands with the dive instructor because you were scared." A couple things about that. The idea that my oxygen usuage is any of your business is odd to me. If my dive negatively affected your's who's fault is that? I would be pissed too, but not at the beginner diver. Also, Rafael MADE me hang on to him so I could share his Oxygen. Good for him. "You should stay out of the water and off the island." Who the hell are you to say that you arrogant &*%?!

Actually, I was NOT irritated at all. I CHOSE to dive with you guys when I could have easily been on the other boat and went to the North side, which happens to be my favorite place to dive. I knew it would be a tedious dive. I WANTED to come with you guys. I love diving with new divers. It's fun to watch their reaction when they get into open water for the first time.
What I do NOT appreciate is the slaughter of both a good instructor and a great dive operation because YOU won't take responsibility for your part in the matter. Yeah, stuff happens. Not everyone has a great first OW dive. It takes time to become and experienced diver. But your posts were exaggerated, dishonest, and uncalled for.
What I should have said, was...if you are unable to dive safely and cannot assume responsibility for your own actions and your own diving, PLEASE stay out of the water and off the island. Nobody wants to see another diver injured or killed due to his/her own lack of the necessary skills to dive safely. Tons of other divers have done just what you did with Deep Blue and didn't have ANY issues. I hope you have a fantastic diving future with a company that is more suited to your desires.

 

[betsyinczm]

I am an admitted "lurker" here but have read this whole thread with interest and some disgust.......so I will just make one observation.......bvana1----you got 100's on all your tests?........that's cool, but you posted this: ""The idea that my oxygen usuage is any of your business is odd to me. If my dive negatively affected your's who's fault is that? I would be pissed too, but not at the beginner diver. Also, Rafael MADE me hang on to him so I could share his Oxygen.""

You DO know that you weren't breathing OXYGEN, right??..........just askin'.

 

[kwinter]

I got 100's on most of the tests and 90% on the final. I felt I had learned the basics pretty well.

Rafael MADE me hang on to him so I could share his Oxygen.

I think this speaks volumes about how much bvana1 learned through his e-learning course.

 

[betsyinczm]

Hhaha........great minds, Kwinter!........and why does my info say "regular of the pub"????........huh?

 

[bvana1]

I am an admitted "lurker" here but have read this whole thread with interest and some disgust.......so I will just make one observation.......bvana1----you got 100's on all your tests?........that's cool, but you posted this: ""The idea that my oxygen usuage is any of your business is odd to me. If my dive negatively affected your's who's fault is that? I would be pissed too, but not at the beginner diver. Also, Rafael MADE me hang on to him so I could share his Oxygen.""

You DO know that you weren't breathing OXYGEN, right??..........just askin'.

yeah, I know it's like 20% Oxygen. I misspoke. Ain't this horse dead yet? Feel better?

 

[nimoh]

A lot of new divers mix up the terms "air" and "oxygen", let's keep it civil