New BC Recommendations after 15-years

[iim7v7im7]

BACKGROUND

I am a warm water, recreational diver with about 300 dives under my belt. I usually go on one or two 1-week dive trips to the caribbean each year. I mostly do boat dives, some occasional beach dives (usually night dives). I rarely if ever do any penetration dives beyond some swim throughs and well frequented wrecks. I weigh 215 lb. and I am 6'3". I have been using the original equipment that I purchased when I was certified 14-years ago. My BCD, a Scubapro Classic (Large) with an Air 2 has served me well and in the last year or two is show wear in the mesh pockets are degrading from sun and water. I have religiously had my equipment serviced each year to keep it maintained.

My original instructor who trained me has passed away about 8-years ago, but instilled certain preconceptions and biases in my understanding of BCs. He recommended full jacket BCs because of their tremendous lift and ability to keep your head out of the water in rough seas or an unconscious divers head up out of the water. He recommended staying away from weight integrated systems and staying with a weight belt because he felt a belt was more reliable in a blow-and-go emergency situation. He preferred integrated air 2 type backup regulator over an octopus. So these biases and use experiences, I carry into a new purchase, but I am willing to consider other thinking. So I am considering replacing it with a new BC and I am seeking recommendations. My local dive shop sells and services BC's from 9-companies:

- Atomic Aquatics
- Cressi
- Halcyon
- Mares
- Oceanic
- Poseidon
- Scubapro
- Sherwood
- Zeagle

I will of course, discuss this with my local shop, but would love to have some recommendations from the forum. I would like to have my equipment locally serviced, so buying a product from one of these companies

CONSIDERATIONS:

- Willing to pay a premium of good design and quality
- Stability of company (will likely own it for 10-15 years)
- Mostly for warm water, boat dives (recreational)
- I pack and travel with it
- I am used to having an Air 2 style BU regulator
- A solid, simple to adjust tank coupling method (steel 72s and Alum 80s)
- I am about 215 lb. and 6'-3"
- I wear 3/2 mm and 0.5 mm wetsuits
- I typically dive with 12-14 lb. of weight
- I use a weight belt but would consider an integrated system
- I am used to having a dump hose plus two dump valves
- I want to have it serviced locally

Which BCs do you think that I should consider and why?

Thanks

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Just about every company makes a BC or two, or more for that matter, that will fit your requirements. I personally don't care for AIR 2 type set ups as it is a solution to a problem that does not really exist. I dive a longer hose primary which I will donate to an LOA or OOA diver and a bungeed back up under my chin that is of equal performance to my primary. I always know where my back up is and the stressed diver I am assisting knows they are getting a working reg.

I own, or have owned, a dozen or more BC's over the last ten years. I currently have 7 plus components to assemble a few more. Three of my BC's are sidemount BC's which don't fit your needs.

Three are BPW's (back plate and wing style and I have an article on those I send for free to anyone providing an email address), and one jacket BC that has not seen water in two years. I have owned two other jacket style BC's and after moving to a back inflate found them cumbersome, too much lift capacity, pockets were crap and required chicken winging my arms to get them in them, and a pain in the ass to travel with.

That said the best of the bunch was my Oceanic Probe.

That was the BC I started with and it had weight integration. Which I now don't care for. I also prefer a belt and to distribute weight between that and the use of a steel plate that puts the weight over my lungs where it needs to be when diving in trim.

With the Probe I required 14 lbs in a 3 mil with an al80 in saltwater looking back through my log. That dropped to 4 lbs in saltwater when I moved to the BPW. In freshwater with a 3 mil I require no weight with an al80 or LP 72.

A fair number of people believe you need to have enough lift to raise the Titanic in a recreational BC. Another school of thought is to use only what you need to float your rig and you at the surface. Really your just your rig because if you use any kind of exposure suit dropping your weight belt is going to insure you stay afloat.

I am somewhere in the middle towards the minimalist end. I want enough lift to float my rig and give me enough of a safety margin to help support another diver who may need assistance. For any single tank diving no matter the exposure suit as I will correctly weighted for it separately, a wing of 30-35 lbs lift is more than enough.

Anything else is overkill and may actually pose a risk to some degree. It may mean that air can get trapped in places that do not vent as efficiently.

With a back inflate of any type you will hear a myth that they push you face forward on the surface. They don't. What pushes people forward is overweighting that requires them to put more air than necessary in the wing coupled with poor distribution of that weight. Or just poor distribution alone.

If your head is out of the water that's enough. You have a reg to breathe off of if you've managed your gas properly. With enough air to float you and proper weighing you lay back like your on a raft in the pool and relax.

My BPW will also fit in a carry on size bag with my reg, mask, computer, 3 mil suit, and a change of clothes with room to spare. Being modular it breaks down for easy assembly and disassembly. The modular construction also means I don't have to replace the whole thing if one part wears out. Harness starts to fray after 10 15 years? Replace it with 15 bucks worth of webbing and re use the hardware. Wing problem? 200 bucks or so. Plate? Unless you run over it will never wear out.

It is always going to fit since you customize it to you. Fits the same way every time. Position the hardware where you want it. Not where the mfg says it should be.

If you want to buy from your LDS then out of your list I'd recommend the Halcyon. Even though you can put together an equal quality and function rig for much less than H sells for.

I sold a complete rig yesterday, two actually, new for 340 bucks. Shipped.

 

[Bigd2722]

Just about every company makes a BC or two, or more for that matter, that will fit your requirements. I personally don't care for AIR 2 type set ups as it is a solution to a problem that does not really exist. I dive a longer hose primary which I will donate to an LOA or OOA diver and a bungeed back up under my chin that is of equal performance to my primary. I always know where my back up is and the stressed diver I am assisting knows they are getting a working reg.

I own, or have owned, a dozen or more BC's over the last ten years. I currently have 7 plus components to assemble a few more. Three of my BC's are sidemount BC's which don't fit your needs.

Three are BPW's (back plate and wing style and I have an article on those I send for free to anyone providing an email address), and one jacket BC that has not seen water in two years. I have owned two other jacket style BC's and after moving to a back inflate found them cumbersome, too much lift capacity, pockets were crap and required chicken winging my arms to get them in them, and a pain in the ass to travel with.

That said the best of the bunch was my Oceanic Probe.

That was the BC I started with and it had weight integration. Which I now don't care for. I also prefer a belt and to distribute weight between that and the use of a steel plate that puts the weight over my lungs where it needs to be when diving in trim.

With the Probe I required 14 lbs in a 3 mil with an al80 in saltwater looking back through my log. That dropped to 4 lbs in saltwater when I moved to the BPW. In freshwater with a 3 mil I require no weight with an al80 or LP 72.

A fair number of people believe you need to have enough lift to raise the Titanic in a recreational BC. Another school of thought is to use only what you need to float your rig and you at the surface. Really your just your rig because if you use any kind of exposure suit dropping your weight belt is going to insure you stay afloat.

I am somewhere in the middle towards the minimalist end. I want enough lift to float my rig and give me enough of a safety margin to help support another diver who may need assistance. For any single tank diving no matter the exposure suit as I will correctly weighted for it separately, a wing of 30-35 lbs lift is more than enough.

Anything else is overkill and may actually pose a risk to some degree. It may mean that air can get trapped in places that do not vent as efficiently.

With a back inflate of any type you will hear a myth that they push you face forward on the surface. They don't. What pushes people forward is overweighting that requires them to put more air than necessary in the wing coupled with poor distribution of that weight. Or just poor distribution alone.

If your head is out of the water that's enough. You have a reg to breathe off of if you've managed your gas properly. With enough air to float you and proper weighing you lay back like your on a raft in the pool and relax.

My BPW will also fit in a carry on size bag with my reg, mask, computer, 3 mil suit, and a change of clothes with room to spare. Being modular it breaks down for easy assembly and disassembly. The modular construction also means I don't have to replace the whole thing if one part wears out. Harness starts to fray after 10 15 years? Replace it with 15 bucks worth of webbing and re use the hardware. Wing problem? 200 bucks or so. Plate? Unless you run over it will never wear out.

It is always going to fit since you customize it to you. Fits the same way every time. Position the hardware where you want it. Not where the mfg says it should be.

If you want to buy from your LDS then out of your list I'd recommend the Halcyon. Even though you can put together an equal quality and function rig for much less than H sells for.

I sold a complete rig yesterday, two actually, new for 340 bucks. Shipped.

Everything Jim said

 

[iim7v7im7]

Jim,

Halcyon makes many models. Is there a particular one or configuration that you are suggesting?

Thanks,

 

[bradells]

Jim, Halcyon makes many models. Is there a particular one or configuration that you are suggesting? Thanks,

Of the single tank BC from Halcyon, all but one uses the Eclipse wing.

I haven't used the other setups (traveler/infinity), but have used the Eclipse 40 in a standard BP/W configuration (I currently dive a HOG32 for singles and Evolve60 for doubles).

For warm water recreational single tank diving, the 30lb Eclipse should be more than enough.

No need for most of the upsells on the other harness/plate they offer. If you need a Synch type configuration, there is a thread currently going on about building one for not much $$, or you can cut the webbing and add a buckle if that's more your thing.

Also a SS plate should get you close to neutral, maybe add a few lbs either on a belt, or integrate it on the waist belt, or the plate itself (I use pockets as sometimes when travelling, the OPS might only have soft weights).

All the D-Rings and crotch strap are optional, but do come in handy for attaching items (along with inner tube/bungee to keep everything streamlined on the harness ... No danglies!)

BRad

 

[diversteve]

Atomic makes fins, regulators, masks etc. but not BC's. They'd be competing with their sister company Zeagle if they did, both owned by Huish Outdoors.

I agree with Jim, you pay a premium for that Blue H. Although if it lasts 15 years again? Do check with your dealer though as I believe all their wings only have an inflator dump and a lower left pull dump. IDK if their inflator has a pull shoulder dump also or you vent thru the hose.

Everything Zeagle sells is Back-Inflate - they don't make a jacket.

While jackets are good for floating you at the surface (really how important is that...) back-inflate BCD's trim better when you're actually diving since having the air on your back allows you to maintain easier horizontal trim.

For travel purposes in the Zeagle line look at the Covert, the Stiletto or the Express Tech. The first two are conventional BCD's just optimized for single tank and travel. The Covert is more of a minimalist design and packs really small. It also weighs 3.9 lbs. fully configured as seen on their website. The Stiletto has more lift and is built on a more solid base. Both are weight-integrated, Covert uses the Ziptouch system - Stiletto the Ripcord. The advantage to the Ripcord is one pull on the handle dumps both front weight pockets. You can also buy a Stiletto with teh Ziptouch but why? The Stiletto and the ET include rear weight pockets standard also - actually with the ET you add a front weight pocket system if desired. The Covert only has front weight pockets but they can possibly be added - ask your dealer. ET and Stiletto also have interchangeable wings, I'm not sure if the Covert does.

I put about 60-70% of my weight in front to trim out optimally.

The ET is a minimalist soft-backplate design that you can add various accessories to as needed instead of possibly buying things you don't want. Zeagle integrated weight systems, pockets, larger wings are optional. They all have 3 dumps afaik - check the Covert as I haven't seen one in person yet. I know the Stiletto does as I've owned one. And the ET since it's the same wing.

I personally think your instructor had an 8 year old bias against weight-integration that no longer applies. The newer systems are completely reliable and those mfr's that couldn't seem to make a weight system that would reliably keep the weights in the pockets 10 years ago have finally figured that out - mostly they quit relying on velcro only.

I'm easily also a fan of both the ScubaPro Lighthawk or Knighthawk - same basic design just one is optimized for travel. They also have the GO which is a travel-optimized jacket if you decide to go that route. The only thing I don't like about it is the fabric is 5x lighter weight than the other two so I wonder about long term durability.

I personally think that Mares models are mostly too gimmicky. And a lot of them are very heavy because of all the "features". Don't buy the Airlink either unless you are a fan of overly complicated systems that do a simple job almost as well. Even Mares only currently sells two modes with it.

I dive Zeagle. So does my buddy. We've never had anything go wrong in over a decade with the same BC's.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

BACKGROUND

I am a warm water, recreational diver with about 300 dives under my belt. I usually go on one or two 1-week dive trips to the caribbean each year. I mostly do boat dives, some occasional beach dives (usually night dives). I rarely if ever do any penetration dives beyond some swim throughs and well frequented wrecks. I weigh 215 lb. and I am 6'3". I have been using the original equipment that I purchased when I was certified 14-years ago. My BCD, a Scubapro Classic (Large) with an Air 2 has served me well and in the last year or two is show wear in the mesh pockets are degrading from sun and water. I have religiously had my equipment serviced each year to keep it maintained.

My original instructor who trained me has passed away about 8-years ago, but instilled certain preconceptions and biases in my understanding of BCs. He recommended full jacket BCs because of their tremendous lift and ability to keep your head out of the water in rough seas or an unconscious divers head up out of the water. He recommended staying away from weight integrated systems and staying with a weight belt because he felt a belt was more reliable in a blow-and-go emergency situation. He preferred integrated air 2 type backup regulator over an octopus. So these biases and use experiences, I carry into a new purchase, but I am willing to consider other thinking. So I am considering replacing it with a new BC and I am seeking recommendations. My local dive shop sells and services BC's from 9-companies:

- Atomic Aquatics
- Cressi
- Halcyon
- Mares
- Oceanic
- Poseidon
- Scubapro
- Sherwood
- Zeagle

I will of course, discuss this with my local shop, but would love to have some recommendations from the forum. I would like to have my equipment locally serviced, so buying a product from one of these companies

CONSIDERATIONS:

- Willing to pay a premium of good design and quality
- Stability of company (will likely own it for 10-15 years)
- Mostly for warm water, boat dives (recreational)
- I pack and travel with it
- I am used to having an Air 2 style BU regulator
- A solid, simple to adjust tank coupling method (steel 72s and Alum 80s)
- I am about 215 lb. and 6'-3"
- I wear 3/2 mm and 0.5 mm wetsuits
- I typically dive with 12-14 lb. of weight
- I use a weight belt but would consider an integrated system
- I am used to having a dump hose plus two dump valves
- I want to have it serviced locally

Which BCs do you think that I should consider and why?

Thanks

I pretty much agree with everything your instructor said. I would consider buying another identical BC if you like the old one. Service on air 2 should not be much of an issue anywhere. Many very serious divers still consider the Classic BC "the best".

I would recommend AGAINST getting any type of back inflation or BP/W rig, unless you try it first. It will feel different and will be VERY different at the surface in that it will not support you effortlessly, with you head completely out of the water.

Only thing I would suggest to improve your configuration is to consider a rubber weight belt. I find them much more comfortable than a nylon one. Also, I do NOT like weight integration on the BC as a means to replace the weightbelt.

 

[decompression]

Jim pretty much covered it. It's funny, I have a lecture I include in my classes that's entitled " your BCD is trying to kill you".....it focuses on vest vs back inflate and Air2 vs long hose donation.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[iim7v7im7]

Thanks all for the input. I can see the underwater logic of a backplate and wings and I can see how it promotes good diving posture and help reduce air consumption. I can also see how much easier to travel with these must be.

It is the rare occasion that I dive in rough weather (I have though on trips to Great Barrier Reef, Provo and Cayman Brac). I think my instructor (RIP) was concerned about features for when things go wrong and not the norm. I also remember diving in Cozumel 10-years ago waiting on the sea floor before our drift and on the surface a diver dropped their weight belt. His buddy tried to bring it to the surface but did not have the lift. I was able to bring it up with my jacket. I think he was concerned about divers coming up away from the boat in rough seas and like the lift of the jacket to get our heads above the waves. Or if you blacked out on the surface. He also insisted that we dive with a snorkel as well (again for safety on the surface). A knife was also a safety tool. Obviously, most of the time, I never need these features, but I believe this was the logic behind his thinking. We all carry the teachings of our instructors with us I suppose.

I have also been using a boa belt as a weight belt. I really feel like a bit of an equipment dinosaur on boats these days.

I have received some differing recommendations which is fine.

 

[scubafanatic]

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