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marciaj

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I am newly certified to diving and am in the process of buying my gear. I have decided on the scubapro ladyhawk bc and now need to buy a regulator.
I have narrowed it down to the SP MK17/G250V and Atomic B2 or Z2.
Here's my questions on regulators:
1. I have heard Scubapro's warranty is outstanding - you do not ever have to buy parts. Does Atomic do the same (plus with them you only have to service it every 2 years correct?)?
2. Is there any real difference between the regulators since Atomic's engineers came from scubapro?


Here's my question on the Ladyhawk:
1. If you have the Air2 does it really eliminate the need for an octo? (is it safe?)
2. Does it make the inflator too bulky having the AIR2 with it?

Thanks for any input...
 
Some parts from some makes may be free, but what about labor? Some LDS will make deals in this area...

Frequency of service depends upon the amount of use, not just time. A properly functioning regulator is part of your life support system while diving. I service my regs once a year, just my preference. It is possible I could stretch the frequency out and save a few bucks. There are some things like regs on which I simply will not pinch a couple of dollars.
 
marciaj,

Sorry I missed noticing earlier that was your first post.... so welcome to SB hope you have fun with the board. SB is a big place and lots of things to explore. You can usually find just about anything you might be looking for!

To answer your second question... yes the Air2 does eliminate the need for a spare second (octo if you will). The important difference is that instead of offering your spare second to a diver who is out of air you offer your primary second and then you breath from the Air2. For that reason a lot of divers will swap out the standard length hose on their primary with a longer hose.

As a new diver it should be fairly easy for you to learn this routine since you don't already have an existing habit that needs to be relearned if you will. The next consideration comes in with
your dive buddy... whether you have a regular buddy or some you get matched up with someone you've never dove with before on a dive site. It will become your responsibility to brief your dive buddy so they know what to be looking for from you if they get into an out of air situation since you won't have a bright yellow reg hanging on the right side of your chest where they would normally go looking for it.

Yes, it will make the inflator a bit heavier and a bit larger than a manual oral inflator. Not that you will notice these difference very much when you are actually in the water. A lot of divers seem to be going in this direction... one less hose, less weight, more streamlined, etc.

Take in mind these are just my opinions. Hopefully you will get some input from some others that will give you a well rounded view of things!
 
Thank you so much for the info on the air2. You read a lot of technical information in diving, but I thought it would be far more useful to have people who have used it or seen it in use give me input (and I did not know from my reading that I would use the air2 - so thanks!) I do have a dive buddy who is more experienced than I am, but hasn't been diving in over four years (so some of this technology is new to him also). He is taking a refresher before my first ocean dive in September, but I have already seen the need to get my own gear and be comfortable with it.
 
Marcia,

T23 outlined some conceptual facts about combo Inflater/Alternate second stage (octopus) units. I happen to agree that those units regardless of manufacturer or models represent trade-off. I won't say they are unsafe but safe use does require some level of training and buddy briefing. One inescapable fact is that they are not the mainstream configuration and the alternate second is the one piece of gear that involves interaction with your dive buddy almost always in a stressed situation. Here is an old post of mine where I take my shot at the topic.

There are design differences in how the Atomic regulators are designed that let them promote a 2 year interval. Regulator service is driven by 2 big factors. One is seat impressions. The valve that controls air delivery in your second stage includes a soft seat and a some whats sharp orifice that seals against the seat. It's much like putting your palm over your mouth. The adjustment of this valve is very subtle and will make the difference between a regulator that breathes nice or one that free flows or breathes like a rock. As most regulators sit idle the orifice is seating into the seat and this delicate adjustment deteriorates as the seat develops an impression. The atomic folks went on their own to do some innovative stuff and created a regulator that does not leave the 2 parts in contact. That is the big swing point on the interval.

The catch is that they have no control over the second service driver, contamination. One bad dunking, one mis handled dust cap, a wet valve or contaminated tank can get stuff like salt water into a regulator and start corrosion and deterioration. Eventually parts are damaged and/or performance falls apart. The 1 year interval is also largely a hedge against corrosion. And there's not a lot Atomic can do to mitigate this except for some premium materials that are of dubious value in this case.

Other than that modern seals, correctly installed will serve well for any reasonable service interval. O-rings don't fall apart in a year.

Parts warranties are nice but there is no free lunch. You can still count on paying about $20- $25 per stage to perform the work. When I was shopping I looked at SP. A local dealer told be to expect $25. per stage and maybe another $20 for parts they change that are not in the free kit. In any case free parts do not equate to free service. A service kit may retail for a wide range of prices from about $7.00 to I'm not sure how much, but a lot more. For some users of some regulators at some point skipping the warranty and going on their own nickel makes sense. For the average new diver running with the manufacturers warranty program and having things checked if there are any concerns or suspected contamination is the way to stay safe.

In terms of regulator performance there are always some differences. In many cases they overlap within the range of the finesse of the set-up technician. As a new diver any of the top shelf brands will serve you well. Almost any diver will be perfectly fine with almost any regulator that is set-up right, it's hard to find junk. When you do side by tests you will no doubt sense differences and they may differ in totally different ways such as one reacting quicker wile another delivers with less effort. They are probably all fine and the big thing is that after a tank or two you will have bonded with it and it will feel natural to you. Going with as much regulator as you can afford in a brand you can get serviced locally is a sound way to go.

Pete
 
Thank you very much. Someone told me about this site and after surfing it a few days, I decided to join (I liked the variety). I am very new to diving but am enthusiastic about it! You get a lot of advise from people which is appreciated. I went to your other article and it helped me make up my mind about the air2. Thanks also for the information on the regulators. I don't mind servicing at any interval necessary, but really wasn't sure if that made Atomic better since there interval was every 2 years or not. By reading from the manufacturers sites you get their point of view, not people using or familiar with them. So thanks, that helps me make up my mind about the regulator I want. Now begins the gauge/computer process!!
 
I'm sure you'd be happy with either regulator; your choices are a couple of the real premium regs out there. The cost of warranty service will really add up regardless of the free parts arrangement. This is an unfortunate money making ploy disguised as "safety" that basically all the major manufacturers participate in. They almost have no choice in the sense that abuse will really cause problems with the reg, and they have no control over how people rinse and store the reg. But, if you dive a few times a year (say 20-30 dives) and soak your reg in clean water after each dive, store it well, it could go several years without needing a rebuild.

Since you're a new diver, and probably unsure of how much you'll actually dive over the next few years, you might choose the reg with the most liberal warranty policy. I think SP requires annual service, and if you miss a year, even if you don't dive at all, you will have to pay for a complete rebuild the next year, including parts. The retail cost on a MK25 rebuild kit is at least $30, the G250 is about $25 (I think) and who knows about the Air 2. Atomic may be more lenient with regards to warranty enforcement.
 

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