Near Miss OOA

[InTheDrink]

This is my first post on scuba board, and I would like to talk about something that happened to me in the carribean, with a resort, and recive constructive criticism on the incident. I know it really isn't a huge deal, but It kinda left a bad taste in my mouth about the guide.

I have been a diver for a couple years with under 15 dives. I took at trip to the carribean and did some dives, I elected to do a night dive with my resort, as I thought it would be a good experience to get another good dive in. I was diving with a OW instructor and two other guests, the dive was eventful in a good way, without incident, I looked at my gauge and realized I had 750psi left in my tank, I imeditatly signaled the divemaster and gave him my guage reading. He signaled ok, I signaled back...this is where im thinking are we going back to the boat? He just continued the dive, so we finally make it back to the boat starting our safety stop, I give him the something is wrong followed by the low on air.. he asks for my pressure I signal back 200psi. I then started to find that my reg was extremly hard to breathe out of and I knew I only had a couple of breaths left. I was still in a calm state, and signaled that I was going to acent, the instructor then gave me a big no...I was 2 min into the safety stop, I was well within my DECO limits, I wanted to surface. He pointed to his octo, I couldn't breathe any longer off of my tank, so I gave the out of air share air signal. He passed his octo, we continued the safety stop, then continued the acent without incident.

Was this OOA situation my fault, or the guides? I still feel bad about putting myself in the situation, there was many air checks during the dive, and with him being the guide, I trusted that he would be able to gauge my air consumption.

It was both your faults. But I wouldn't spend too much time dwelling on that.

Instead, welcome to ScubaBoard. You sound keen to learn and this is an bloody marvellous place to do just that. You can learn a lot here from many experienced divers and lots of good (and some not so good) discussion.

Welcome on board.

J

 

[netmage]

If you could premise your opening a little more politely I think that would be generally appreciated. Being patronised is rarely appreciated or helpful, particularly with a newer diver.

J

J,
I liked your first response better...

-Tim

 

[langperf]

Interesting thread.

I haven't made that many dives. But with every dive I've done (with the exception of my first OW dive where we were in only 20' of water) there has always been a spare tank and 2 regs hanging on the 15' safety stop bar. I thought this was standard operating procedure for boat dives. We even practiced OOA at the safety stop. Turning on the tank, checking the gauge, and purging the reg to make sure it works before removing your reg from your mouth. Why wouldn't this be common practice? Or is it.

 

[ShakaZulu]

If you could premise your opening a little more politely I think that would be generally appreciated. Being patronised is rarely appreciated or helpful, particularly with a newer diver.

J

I assume you mean "patronized"...

pa·tron·ize (ptr-nz, ptr-)
tr.v. pa·tron·ized, pa·tron·iz·ing, pa·tron·iz·es
1. To act as a patron to; support or sponsor.
2. To go to as a customer, especially on a regular basis.
3. To treat in a condescending manner.

Not trying to be condescending.... The "new diver" can be lucky I left him out of this. This is a dangerous sport, and 15 dives in two years is putting yourself and your fellow divers at risk.

PS. Brighton is not that far from the ocean, maybe the water is really cold

 

[DCBC]

You've already got some good advice. Obviously you are the pilot-in-command of your own vessel and as such, it is your responsibility to call the dive when you feel it necessary. That said, the DM used poor judgement. I hope that you came away from the dive with the knowledge that you can't depend upon anyone, when it comes to your safety. You call the ball. Thanks for relating your story; it's one that many of us have experienced ourselves.

 

[Karel26]

I noticed this in a thread before that both the buddies
go up in america when the first buddy is low on air. .
Is that true or how do you work in the U.S? ?

In South Africa we just go to our dm show him out of air and
you going up then on your own or if the buddies feel like it
they go up together. . If the other buddy stqays behind he/she
buddies up with the dm untill there is some one with out a buddy
and then the buddy of the dm will buddy up with the other person. .

I must be honest i prefere it this way, then i can have my full dive
time, other wise i have to quite my dive time any thing between
10 and 15min before my air are finished (due to my low air
cosumption ). . For me that is a lot of dive time that are wasting. .

Live to dive and Dive to live. . . . :burnout:

 

[Jorgy]

On vacation my dive buddies are primarily my darling bride and/or children. When I am with them there is no question we all go up together.......

But typically dive buddy teams would stay together, but depending on the dive, the buddy, closeness to shore/boat there have been occasions where LOA members of group surface before their buddy.....

On some drift dives in the Caribbean there are two DM's, if there is a LOA diver the "tail" DM will take the diver to the surface and the group will continue....

M

 

[DCBC]

I noticed this in a thread before that both the buddies
go up in america when the first buddy is low on air. .
Is that true or how do you work in the U.S? ?

In South Africa we just go to our dm show him out of air and
you going up then on your own or if the buddies feel like it
they go up together. . If the other buddy stqays behind he/she
buddies up with the dm untill there is some one with out a buddy
and then the buddy of the dm will buddy up with the other person. .

I must be honest i prefere it this way, then i can have my full dive
time, other wise i have to quite my dive time any thing between
10 and 15min before my air are finished (due to my low air
cosumption ). . For me that is a lot of dive time that are wasting. .

Live to dive and Dive to live. . . . :burnout:

I think that this really depends upon the type of dive you're on, its location and the experience level of the diver. Over the past few years, there has been a fundamental change in the role of the DM, incorporating them as guides and in-water safety personnel. Prior to this, this responsibility fell to the dive buddy.

In the past, the focus of the DM was primarily checking diver equipment upon entry and recording entry and exit times. Of course he was responsible for coordinating the rescue plan and the treatment and transport of an injured diver.

The change of role (or addition of responsibilities), placing the DM in the water as a guide, came about as a direct-result of the lowering of diver in-water competence and subsequent certification of divers that could not dive independently (or act as a responsible member of a buddy team). Some certification agencies do not require the diver to possess any degree of rescue capability prior to certification (although they are versed in tired-diver tows/pushes) which in-turn has created more dependence on the DM to ensure safety.

The DM as a diver safety tool allowed less qualified people to dive, although there seems to be less dependence on the buddy who is often untrained to help in an emergency anyway. Further reduction of training (buddy breathing for example) is sure to lower the independence on the buddy even further. Redundant systems have led many divers to consider to dive solo; again lowering the requirement for a capable buddy.

So to answer your question, all I can add is that it depends upon the level of diver training, location and in some cases local policy. The trend has resulted in some Dive Operators placing more restrictions on who can dive unsupervised. I believe that it was Trace (a well qualified technical instructor), was recently told that he could not dive unsupervised in-front of his hotel in shallow-water (Bermuda) without a DM. Just crazy!

 

[diverrex]

Interesting thread.

I haven't made that many dives. But with every dive I've done (with the exception of my first OW dive where we were in only 20' of water) there has always been a spare tank and 2 regs hanging on the 15' safety stop bar. I thought this was standard operating procedure for boat dives. We even practiced OOA at the safety stop. Turning on the tank, checking the gauge, and purging the reg to make sure it works before removing your reg from your mouth. Why wouldn't this be common practice? Or is it.

This is generally not normal practice by many, probably not by most, boat operators. Our local boats in California don't do it, and in my experience with about 10 different boat charters in the Caribbean only one (OF in Grand Cayman) did so.

 

[InTheDrink]

I assume you mean "patronized"...

pa·tron·ize (ptr-nz, ptr-)
tr.v. pa·tron·ized, pa·tron·iz·ing, pa·tron·iz·es
1. To act as a patron to; support or sponsor.
2. To go to as a customer, especially on a regular basis.
3. To treat in a condescending manner.

Not trying to be condescending.... The "new diver" can be lucky I left him out of this. This is a dangerous sport, and 15 dives in two years is putting yourself and your fellow divers at risk.

PS. Brighton is not that far from the ocean, maybe the water is really cold

Take a look at the Oxford English Dictionary. You're using the American dialect of the English language. Which is fine. The correct English usage is with an 's' not a 'z'. Not that I'd expect you to know the difference. But next time you try to haul someone up on something do yourself the service of having a clue what you're talking about.

Thanks for your helpful input to the thread though.

J

edit: if you've any further comments PM me and let's not waste other people's time.