Near Death Experience!

[CROCETTI]

wow.

 

[jstuart1]

I think you can get a lot of information about an person, just by talking to them...

I have only done a handful of ocean dives and am still learning and developing my "get to know you" routine. I agree that by just talking helps you get to know each other. After the introductions, I will describe how I usually dive, that I like to take pictures etc.. but I also make sure my buddy knows that I have poor depth perception under water (don't have scripts in my mask yet) and therefore I don't like to get to close to things or people. Comfortable to me is 4-6 ft. I let them know that because of that to look above or behind them for me. I let them know that I do tend to suck air especially the first dive. I let them know I have a sub duck on my bc to signal with, how to release my weight pouches and show them my safety sausage. And I make sure they know ahead of time that if there are swim throughs I don't feel comfortable going through I will go over or around. Poor depth perception makes swim throughs look much smaller than they are. The thing I have found is that as you are talking to them about your dive habits and your weak or quirky areas they tend to tell you about themselves and you can determine how to handle things with them. So far the on the spot buddies I have dove with didn't ask me anything first. It took me starting the conversation to get the info I needed about them and to make sure they knew the important things about me.

[QUOTE}When I'm diving with someone who I have no knowledge about ie... a complete stranger, I will ask them questions.If a person feels that my questions are intrusive then I don't want them as my buddy. [/QUOTE]

Agreed. I wish the dive buddies would have asked me questions. Especially the more experience ones because lets face it I don't remember everything. I also think it's important to know your weak areas and make sure your buddy does too. A good case of this happend on my last trip. My dive buddy had only 5 dives over 2 years and told me they had trouble clearing one ear. What they didn't tell my was that they don't use the blow the nose technique for clearing but rather swallowed. So as we are going down and my buddy would have to go back up, I kept pointing at my nose trying to get them to clear more often to see if it made the descent easier. No harm done on this one. But if I didn't tell you that I have poor depth perception underwater, and you were constantly looking for me you might think I left you. Once I tell you about it and let you know that I'm above or behind you but still keeping my eye on you then you know where to look for me. Also if I stop and signal to go around a swimthough you know why rather than having needles confusion.

Sure hope getting my prescription put in my mask helps with this. It would be cool to be able to get closer to things without bumping into them. The way my astigmatism is, I can see fine but the distance between 2ft to 0 just isn't there. Drives poor hubby crazy trying to have me help him back up to a trailer hitch. :11:

 

[Tassie_Rohan]

Often you don’t even have to talk on the boat trip out to sort out potential buddies: people who are quietly confident, put their kit together with a minimum of fuss and act like they've done this before a 100 times probably have. A glance at how people configure and stow their rig can also provide a wealth of info...

People who constantly state their qualifications, take inordinate amounts of time to kit up and get in the way of operations on board are the ones to watch out for.

I always enjoy chatting about past dives with a new buddy – the social side of diving is just as rewarding as the underwater action, and its important to agree that anyone can cancel the dive at anytime – we’re all here to have fun right?.

I also ask a new buddy what units are on their SPG. I use Bar and have had several misunderstandings with other divers re remaining air until I realised they were using PSI .. (you’ve still got 100! Jeeze, that’s nothing to worry about…. lets stay down here a bit longer then… Oi , where are you going?)

Cheers,
Rohan.

 

[phlee]

1. Check out gear. Rented or owned
a. Inflate BC-- look at air guage- listen - exercise dumps and inflation ports
b. Mask- Fins adjusted-weight coirrect and release ok
c. Snorkel good idea especially in rough water--
2. Boat dive and navigation--- Take some sort of compass bearing. Anchor line works!
3. Strong swimmer can also kick towards a boat, weak swimmer can kick towrds boat, advanced Padi diver that has passed the tread water test-- Do not become SEVERELY traumatized if so do not participate in this activity, instead write a novel and watch an action movie
4. How was a dive buddie going to save your beacon when you surfaced?
5. Taking a course does not make you experienced.
6.What about your dive buddie-- why did YOU abandom him after a 30minute dive? Becasue the dive master says so!

 

[LuvsItWet]

Your post does not warrant a response, so I won't! I would however suggest using a spellchecker and investing in English 101!

 

[Sideband]

Hey Luvsitwet,

I have to ask, where did you get the idea about the CD? that is probably the best idea ive heard in a LONG time.

Also what part of indianapolis are you from? I grew up in Carmel (I know, no name calling hahaha)....

Forget about the CD! It is NOT a good replacement for a signal mirror. Please, check out the link Pug posted earlier in this thread.

Joe

 

[Sideband]

1. Check out gear. Rented or owned
a. Inflate BC-- look at air guage- listen - exercise dumps and inflation ports
b. Mask- Fins adjusted-weight coirrect and release ok
c. Snorkel good idea especially in rough water--
2. Boat dive and navigation--- Take some sort of compass bearing. Anchor line works!
3. Strong swimmer can also kick towards a boat, weak swimmer can kick towrds boat, advanced Padi diver that has passed the tread water test-- Do not become SEVERELY traumatized if so do not participate in this activity, instead write a novel and watch an action movie
4. How was a dive buddie going to save your beacon when you surfaced?
5. Taking a course does not make you experienced.
6.What about your dive buddie-- why did YOU abandom him after a 30minute dive? Becasue the dive master says so!

Sorry LuvsItWet. I have to respond. #4 just HAS to be answered and since I'm at it...

#1.OK. Always a good idea and should be part of predive checks.
#2. I don't understand. "Some sort of compass bearing"? He didn't get lost. He could see the boat. What does the anchor line have to do with anything?
#3. This one still has me puzzled. Everyone can kick towards the boat and some incomplete thought about treading water and PADI followed by some career counseling. <Shrug>
#4. This question tells me you lack buddy skills. The buddy could have shared air on the way up which would have left more in his tank if needed in the large swells. The buddy could have helped keep him calm once at the surface. The buddy could have been the one to remember to dump weights. The buddy could have deployed his own safety sausage or other signaling device if he had one. The buddy could have assisted in mantaining buoyancy at the surface since he had a fully functional BC. I could go on.
#5. I don't remember this being an issue, but taking a course does indeed give you experience. It does not make you proficient.
#6. Huh? Are you suggesting that he should have stayed at 70' with no air because his buddy didn't want to surface? You are saying he abandoned his buddy?

Joe

 

[phlee]

"After 30 min into the dive, I noticed I only had 550 lbs. of air left"
Here an example of why to check your air and your buddies air throughout the dive.

"(THIS IS AGAINST EVERYTHING THAT PADI AND YMCA TEACHES) I started my ascent alone.."
Here is an example where the rules only apply to the other guy

"The divemaster told everyone to stay in the water, and told the boat captain:"
Wonder what those other divers were thinking?

Boat diving and navigation, probably another thread---- However for this incident my question is – Assuming the diver has the Boat and anchor line in his compass or visual bearing, why not use the 15ft safety “level” to kick towards the boat step or anchor line. I’m not aware of any reason to just stop and hover at 15ft. Can’t you still maintain that 15ft level an continue to kick towards your exit point?

 

[subaquaman]

LuvsItWet, thanks for sharing the story and the lessons you learned from it.

why not use the 15ft safety “level” to kick towards the boat step or anchor line.

In an OOA situation, especially if left on your own, the priority is to get to the surface. If it were me, I would have ommitted the safety stop entirely as it was not a mandatory stop. However, when your underneath, looking around, seeing choppy conditions above and a world of blue surrounding you, interrupted by only the red on your SPG, orientating yourself, understandably, may not be the first thing that comes to mind. Also, if there is a current moving, swimming against it at 15' will only increase your SAC and decrease the air you have left. Again, ommitting the safety stop and surfacing immediately will stop you drifting too far and will allow you surface close to the boat/anchor line.

I have to criticise the DM in this instance for not accompanying you to the surface. His comprehensive training should have taught him that a diver should always be with one or more buddies for many reasons, including an OOA- what would've happened if on ascent your LPI blew entirely and you were left with no air?? He would've been able to help you at the surface, ditch your weights, provide you with reassurance, signal the boat with his horn, and if so desired recommenced the dive with the other buddy when you were safely aboard. Your buddy can be criticised for the same reasons, although the DM has gone through the first level of PADI Professional training and should be aware of safe diving practices.

Wonder what those other divers were thinking?

I agree on this point that while the other divers were with a DM, if a boat is nearby they should be recovered immediately, not left floating. In this case it may have worked out since you were starting to give up, in most cases the divers should have been recovered before the search began. Apart from stopping the boat returning to find they have drifted and all divers missing, it means the DM can assist the coxwain in managing the situation.

As for the questions this thread has sparked with regard to buddy selection, my recommendation would be to talk to the crew, coxwain or DM beforehand. As already mentioned, most centres ask about your experience before the dive so as to allow the DM/coxwain select suitable matches. However, from experience, choosing such matches can be difficult if you are pairing two strangers- you just go by cert levels etc. If a DM/coxwain gets to know you beforehand, especially if most other divers on the boat are regulars, they should be able to pair you with someone they already know, who may suit you better.

I also highly recommend talking in detail to your buddy before the dive. Ask simple questions: have you been here before? do you dive often? how many would you reckon your on now? Tell them about your own experiences, it may trigger experiences in their own mind they will share with you. Another good trick is to look at other diver's gear. Although it doesn't always work, a diver with brand new personal gear, may be an inexperienced diver who bought himself the kit it rarely uses it; a diver with old, used looking kit may be a seasoned diver who has a wealth of experience and has become accustomed to his kit which may not look the may west but is well serviced; and a diver using rental equipment may again be an infrequent diver. Don't hesitate to ask, and if you have a problem mention it quietly to the DM who can easily pull the buddy aside and say "I'm just looking at this again and you might find diving with bill a little easier then with ben, whose of a similar experience (or very experienced whatever the case may be)."

Finally, I have to add my support to the surface sausage/personal marker buoy/elephants condom, whatever you like to call them. From a coxwain's perspective a diver 50m away is the size of a marble since all that is visible is the divers' head. Add to this a 2m rod and the chances of being spotted go through the roof. If I am coxing a dive boat, I insist all divers have a surface signalling device and if they don't have one of their own they can borrow a sausage from the boat for their BCD and put it back after.

Once again, LuvsItWet thanks for sharing the experience. Glad you are here to tell it. It always helps to learn lesson from other people. Most importantly, I know that the next time I'm pairing divers I'll try to get to know new divers before selecting buddies! Thank you.

 

[RP Diver]

LuvsItWet, i think you did alright in making it out alive, and hidsight is 20-20. sounds
like you've learned some good lessons here.

i found myself thinking i would have done the following different:


3. did i and my buddy do mutual bubble check before descending tomake sure no air is leaking?

4. did i keep an eye on those gages? did i check them often to make sure i'm good?

IMO, these 2 are the main contributing factors to this incident.

3. Even a minor leak becomes quite apparent once you are away from the surface turbulence. Buddy, DM, just another diver in the group should have noticed just at a glance if there was a bubble stream that wasn't supposed to be there. It is not uncommon to see a manual inflator or manual dump valve with some seepage, and the other really common one is a leak around the o-ring in the tank orifice. Rental equipment and resort tanks get rough use and such problems are rarely detected until they are spotted in the water on a dive. I can understand that you may have expected this from your buddy, and it is a real problem when you are paired up with someone who is that unaware. I'm surprised that you didn't spot this one yourself, as the inflator is something that you can check without depending on your buddy.

4. I don't think 5 minutes ever goes by on a dive that I don't check my air, and I track my depth and dive time more often than that (especially on bottomless dives, i.e. walls and open water). And I've been this cautious since my first ocean dive. IMO, experience isn't as much of a key as awareness. I made it a habit right from the start as a novice diver and now it's as natural as clearing my mask. If I have already used almost half my air only 15 minutes into a 70 ft dive, I would know immediately that something was wrong and moved to rectify it (even if that means aborting the dive immediately) long before i reach the 500 psi danger zone.


I have done numerous solo ascents through the years, as my main dive buddy is my wife, and she was born with gills. I always run low on air before she does, and unless there is a contributing danger factor (i.e. strong current, high seas, etc.), we arrange before hand with the DM that we will rejoin the group before I need surface and she will stay down with/near them while I do my ascent. It has never been a problem with any operation we have dived with as long as we make the proper arrangements ahead of time. In this case, I think I would have insisted that the DM go up (if my so-called buddy refused) with me as it was already known that the surface conditions were less than ideal.

I see this as another good example of why training to the rescue level is so valuable. For one thing, there is no way that you would have stayed up there for more than a couple of minutes before realising that you needed to dump the weights. You also would have more aware of self-rescure techniques like having the sausage with you.