Navy Admits Sonar Use

[RIDIVER501]

Point dlndavid:
next serve he he he

I loved that.

 

[Boogie711]

Junk science?

"Junk science" is faulty scientific data and analysis used to...

You forgot:

Social Activists - who use faulty data and scaremongering as a tremendously efficient fundraising tool.

Over $3.5 Billion dollars donated to activist groups in the last fiscal year I've seen data for folks. That's Billion - with a "B."

There are some very wealthy advocacy groups.

 

[glbirch]

Junk science?

"Junk science" is faulty scientific data and analysis used to used to further a special agenda. The junk science "mob" includes:

The MEDIA may use junk science for sensational headlines and programming. Some members of the media use junk science to advance their and their employers' social and political agendas.
PERSONAL INJURY LAWYERS may use junk science to bamboozle juries into awarding huge verdicts. Large verdicts may then be used to extort even greater sums from deep-pocket businesses that may be fearful of future jury verdicts.
SOCIAL ACTIVISTS, such as the "food police," environmental extremists, and gun-control advocates, may use junk science to achieve social and political change.
GOVERNMENT REGULATORS may use junk science to expand their authority and to increase their budgets.
BUSINESSES may use junk science to bad-mouth competitors' products or to make bogus claims about their own products.
POLITICIANS may use junk science to curry favor with special interest groups or to be "politically correct."
INDIVIDUAL SCIENTISTS may use junk science to achieve fame and fortune.
INDIVIDUALS who are ill (real or imagined) may use junk science to blame others for causing their illness.

Can't tell if you're agreeing or disagreeing here, but I think you just made my point for me.

Remember, it's only junk science when it's the other guy's results and you don't agree with him.

 

[Kim]

Anybody ever wonder or find out what happened to Japan when all those Japanese fishermen willfully herded hundreds maybe even thousands of dolphins and poroises ashore and killed them back in the 80's? The photos in the national geographic showed a blood slick that could vary well be seen from space...Whatever happend with that?

here is an article on it with some of the scaled down pictures.

dolphin slaughter

Well as you don't know I'll tell you. Due to the public outcry in Japan and the reluctance of the Japanese to continue buying dolphin and porpoise to eat, the practice of fishing for them (which had been going on for hundreds of years) stopped. The fishermen realized that they could earn the same money in a different way. They now do sightseeing dolphin spotting trips in the area you are referring to - it's extremely popular and the fishermen are earning much more money than they ever did before. Funnily enough there was a documentary on Japanese television about this last week. Several of the fishermen gave interviews and everyone is much happier with the new situation.
Just thought you'd like to know!

 

[archman]

The fishermen realized that they could earn the same money in a different way. They now do sightseeing dolphin spotting trips in the area you are referring to - it's extremely popular and the fishermen are earning much more money than they ever did before.

Thanks for the info Kim, after looking at coral reef impact analyses the last couple of days, I needed some cheering up!

 

[dlndavid]

Point dlndavid:
next serve he he he

I loved that.

Can't tell if you're agreeing or disagreeing here, but I think you just made my point for me.

I don't think we have to agree, you already pointed this out in your original reply to me.
But RIDIVER501 gave me the point, so how could I make your point?
LFS is realitively new, but whales have been beaching themselves for a lot longer than sonar itself. To blame something on something new (and so convenient as a military application which protects many human beings). IS not scientific proof. It is though, a common method of enviromentalist to use such tactics. If a further study is needed, so be it. Until then it is 'junk science'. And you don't have to agree with me, you don't have to give it a name, (your disagreement), but you will make my point.

 

[glbirch]

I don't think we have to agree, you already pointed this out in your original reply to me.
But RIDIVER501 gave me the point, so how could I make your point?

Didn't realize we were keeping score.

LFS is realitively new, but whales have been beaching themselves for a lot longer than sonar itself. To blame something on something new (and so convenient as a military application which protects many human beings). IS not scientific proof. It is though, a common method of enviromentalist to use such tactics. If a further study is needed, so be it. Until then it is 'junk science'. And you don't have to agree with me, you don't have to give it a name, (your disagreement), but you will make my point.

Whales have been dying for a lot longer than we've been harpooning them too, but nobody denies that harpooning a whale can be detrimental to its health.

The navy is using new sonar, more power, different frequencies, and has changed its training locations closer to shore than it used to in the past, if I recall correctly. Are some or all of theses factors linked to bahaviour changes in whales and orcas? Observations seems to indicate the possibility exists. Independent studies to prove or disprove the link seem to me to be a logical step that I for one would like to see taken. If it is true, then the sooner we know the better it will be. If false, then perhaps the research would give us insite into what is causing the abberant behaviour. Perhaps making the claim without concrete evidence can be called junk science, but what do you call denying the claim without any more evidence?

 

[dlndavid]

How about junk denial, and I wasn't keeping score, just trying to keep it light as we have. Have a great weekend. I will be enjoying a 3 day one.

 

[glbirch]

How about junk denial, and I wasn't keeping score, just trying to keep it light as we have. Have a great weekend. I will be enjoying a 3 day one.

Denial. Not just a river in Egypt...

First weekend in a while. Definitely plan to have a great one.

 

[RIDIVER501]

Interesting:
http://www.surtass-lfa-eis.com/

I found this while doing research for work on LFA