NAUI versus PADI

[MichaelMc]

When did they drop it? I retired as a NAUI instructor only a year and a half ago, and this standard was part of my classes right up until I quit teaching

I think in 2016 NAUI tagged as 'legacy' the DM skills equipment exchange and snorkel ditch and recovery. 'Not required but may be presented as a challenge to the candidate to demonstrate exceptional skill and ability underwater'. (swim down 8', remove mask/fins/snorkel, leave, swim up, get air, swim down, don, clear, displacement clear before surface).

I think snorkel ditch and recovery is a great test, and one without compressed air risks. Lots of scuba benefits from pool practice, and as a student that is easier to do if you do not need scuba for it. So anything that leads to a snorkel skill is great. If they can do that, trusting them with compressed air is less worrisome. 10 weeks for class is a great thing.

tbone's class sounds great.

 

[boulderjohn]

and, you've already paid for it

In a debate about this in ScubaBoard years ago, people had a lot of trouble seeing this point. People argued over and over again that the fact that people are willing to take these long and intensive courses and pay that large fraction of their tuition--many thousands of dollars in many cases--for the course meant that local shops should be able to offer those same classes and charge those same rates. The reality is that students have to pay that tuition every semester, regardless of what courses they take. They are required to take a certain number of physical education classes. They have no choice about paying the money, and they have no choice about having to take physical education classes, but they do have a choice in which classes they take. So they look at the course catalog and say, "Let's see, will it be bowling, archery, weightlifting, aerobics, or scuba?"

When my older son was in college, he elected to take bowling for one of his required physical education courses, and he liked it a lot. He took bowling for the rest of his required courses as well. Would you argue that it proves that he would be willing to spend about $10,000 for a many months long bowling class if he were not in college? BTW, in the 16 years since he graduated, he has not bowled a single game.

 

[tbone1004]

@NWGratefulDiver and @boulderjohn hit the nail on the head. No one takes this class unless they're a student or faculty member. If student, it's already wrapped into their fees. In addition, they have a $105 lab fee which covers their books, materials for their nav slate, and gives us a bit of extra money for gear repair and maintenance *about $5/student which barely covers the running cost of the compressor*.
They have a $103 fee to go to the quarry which covers their entry to the quarry $40, their C-card at $18, and helps to offset the cost of volunteers coming to help at $20 each/day, instructors are free.

In addition, they still have to purchase mask, fins, snorkel, and gloves *any time they are on scuba, they are wearing gloves, no bare hands allowed, no exceptions since the quarry is cold and we want them to not have the touch sensation for things like bolt snaps, identifying LP hoses, etc* as well as the added complexity of hand signals with gloves on*, and it does not cover equipment rental for their open water course with 2 tanks of nitrox required. Rental is about $120 for the two days, and MFS with gloves and booties is $150-$200.

Total cost, on top of their tuition, is $210 to the university, and somewhere between $250-$400 to the dive shop of their choice *obviously less if they own their own equipment, total of on average $500 plus tuition. We are required to take a 200 level PE course at some point while they're getting a bachelors, so if you want to scuba dive, may as well. Perks if you stick with it though are access to the air compressor for free fills, if you volunteer in the classes we are quite liberal about loaning out gear so if you own your own wetsuit you can borrow tanks and bp/w with regulator, and if you choose to, free tuition for leadership courses.

One of the LDS in the area is $640 minimum for their course not including MFS, another is $500+MFS. We aren't unreasonable if you are already at the school.

 

[Diver0001]

None of that explains why I can't have a copy of the video if the video only shows me.

It's about framing.

If you are putting a product in the market and claiming that it is vastly superior to anything else then you don't want any evidence to the contrary. This coin fell for me when I witnessed a GUE fundamental course being given and seeing a number of things that would have raised serious questions about the manner in which the course was conducted.

I haven't followed any other GUE training but I've followed other "technical" programmes. I've also dived with GUE divers and found their skills to be somewhere on the scale from good to exceptional, which can't be said of all of the technical divers I've encountered. The results, therefore, pretty much speak for themselves but after seeing this fundies course being taught -- and having the background I do in teaching rank beginners -- I was pretty convinced that the particular instructor had probably come out of a hard-core technical background and really had a poor grasp on how to teach newbies.

The instructor himself was a tremendously stable diver from what I saw but seemed to have significant problems, especially top-side, in creating an atmosphere conducive to openness, trust and optimal learning. In short, it was pretty reminiscent of the dictatorial style you see most often during technical training and from the point of view of a PADI instructor who ONLY teaches newbies, it seemed to be full of beginners mistakes.

If any of that had been on video it would have been very damaging to the framing GUE wants. The last thing they would want is a simple PADI hack like myself pointing out his mistakes with video to back it up.

R..

 

[RayfromTX]

** MOD POST: **
This thread has gone a long way towards illustrating how we can discuss various agencies without rancor and hurt feelings. Please stay respectful and remember that our tone may convey things we don't intend. Please remember that this is the forum for new divers and those considering diving and there are special guidelines that should be followed. Thanks for understanding. Some posts have been deleted that contained some good content. Please feel free to edit and repost.