My wife, OW, and DIR?

[Lost Yooper]

Greg,

I'm not trying to convert anyone to anything. Take my opinions with a grain of salt if you wish. I couldn't care less. I couldn't care less about the supposed "standards" of an agency like PADI (or most of the others). I care about quality training. Period.

If it matters, I've been diving a DIRish configuration for 5 years in conditions ranging from ice diving to deep wrecks to the tropics. 99% of my diving is deeper Great Lakes wrecks. DIR has worked flawlessly for me in every environment I have put it through. It has worked so well that I feel compelled to share it with others. I do think DIR is the best way to dive. I make no bones about it. If you want a demonstration, take a DIRF class.

Mike

 

[MikeFerrara]

You are right about one thing. Enrollment of a GUE OW will be low. Like I said, If you start with a student who has lofty goals the battle is half won. Just like the college who only accepts geniuses will have all geniuses for graduates.

We take the average would be diver who does not have lofty goals and try to instil those goals and an appreciation for good diving. The failure rate is much higher because the challange is much greater and the likelyhood of siccess is much lower.

Folks like some on this board who know so much about how dive training should be done should give it a try. Maybe they could help change things to be more to their liking. However before you do read below.

I think I'll vomit if I hear one more time how PADI instructors/shop owners are interested in profit and the GUE instructors do it because they love the sport. I'll bet I (and others) have more invested (personally) and make way way less! Who is interested in money? Tally so far...Investment = life savings, profit = zero. chance of recovering initial investment = zero

 

[TCDiver1]

Using Cozumel as an example, do you guys really blame the industry for all the damage done? And what do you mean by "industry?"

Does it mean the cruise ship herds that pound the reefs several times a day?

Does it mean the dive boat operators and DM's who are slow to stop people from purposely braking off chunks of reef? (yes i have seen this)

Does it mean the contrators who built the roads & walls with chunks of reef in them for stone?

Does it mean the fisherman dragging their anchors and nets across the reefs to catch that grouper for the masses enjoyment?

Can you explain to me how DIR is gonna fix these things? Too be sure divers have damaged the reefs but they are far from being the only damaging factor. For my part it angers me to see divers bouncing off the reef and i wonder who the heck trained those people.

Our groups don't have that problem and they were trained the Padi way. Most groups i see don't have that problem. Some do! True, most groups are not "DIR trimmed" but you don't need to be to control your buoyancy. For the most part they stay off the reef fine.

I've said this many times on this board that i've got nothing but respect for what the DIR philosophy is trying to accomplish but the moral heights some DIR advocates elevate the philosophy to are unbelievable to me.

But what the heck do i know. I'm one of the instruments of evil, making odles of money, certifying rototillers, wearing poodle jackets, doing weenie diving.

sic...*sarcasm*

 

[TCDiver1]

CuriousMe once bubbled...


Thanks for saying this gedunk....I've got to say that the thing that get's my hackles up is the idea that because I use a BC (FWIW I LOVE my Seaquest Diva LX), I'm automatically a rototiller! It's that black and white all or nothing implication that I hear from some DIR type folks that makes me not want to to even consider the class.


Peace,
Cathie

Cathie, no prob!

Don't let a few bad apples sour your taste. My advise, take a DIRF class and use what you like, discard what you don't. IMHO it will not hurt you as a diver but it will probably help a lot. The reasoning ( not the rethoric) behind DIR is very sound.

Peace back at ya!

 

[Lost Yooper]

Mike, Mike, Mike,

The reason GUE OW classes will likely have lower enrollment is because they will cost more, take longer, etc... People want the resort course, and by golly, PADI and others will be happy to oblige them.

Here's what I know about dive training at large: it fails miserably at the most basic and important diving skills. I know you agree with me because you've said yourself that most of those who take those student to the deep end at Gilboa are nutts. They don't have the skills. They aren't being taught the skills. The standards are not high enough.

Also, did I say that instructors care more about profit than anything else? I don't think I did. I realize that instructors are not generally in that upper 1% tax bracket. I said the *agencies* are interested in money over skill mastery. In fact, most of the industry as a whole is interested in producing a massive amount of students. It's all about economics.

You're not going to tell me that you think the current standards are producing students with good skills, are you Mike?

 

[TCDiver1]

You know your filthy rich.

Vacuuming the meger earnings off the diving proletariat .... shame on you!

 

[Lost Yooper]

Agencies
Equipment manufacturers
Resorts
Dive Shops
Charter operators

All of these groups benefit from massive amounts of student certifications. If standards were subtantially elevated, there would be fewer divers and less money.

My take,

Mike

 

[Lost Yooper]

Hey Mike,

One more thing, why is it that you can't charge what you're worth as an instructor and make money? Because prospective students can go down the street and get it done cheaper and faster. This is what I'm talking about. I'm all for you guys making money, as long as the students benefit.

Mike

 

[MikeFerrara]

You're not going to tell me that you think the current standards are producing students with good skills, are you Mike?

No.

 

[TCDiver1]

Lost Yooper once bubbled...
Agencies
Equipment manufacturers
Resorts
Dive Shops
Charter operators

All of these groups benefit from massive amounts of student certifications. If standards were subtantially elevated, there would be fewer divers and less money.

My take,

Mike

The question of who should get certified & how, is an ethical and free market economy question beyond my cranial capacity on friday afternoon. I agree with your quote, just don't feel it's my position to judge (beyond my agencies training standards) who gets the card & who doesn't. No malice intended, just how i feel about it.

Have a great weekend