My own equipment not allowed for Open Water class?

[RIHappyDiver]

Is there a dive shop in Jamestown now to replace the dive that was there many blue moons ago (the one owned by David Swain)?

No. Someone bought it along with a shop in northern RI, but closed the one in Jamestown a couple of years later. A couple of years after that, the shop in Newport closed, as well. That one was not easy to get to during tourist season, though. Supposedly there is another shop in Newport, but I’ve seen tanks with their name in them being filled at the fire extinguisher company that fills mine.

 

[Marie13]

These aren't even "warm water shops", the ocean is close enough, they are just holding to the old dive shop model that worked back 20 or 30 years ago and won't modernize. We've talked, but they are not interested in change, and they may die like 3 of the other shops that were in the general area.

When I was looking to buy LP50s in 2020, I had my tech instructor’s shop check to see what it would be to order them. I was told anything through Blue Steel is expensive and it was. It would have been $399 for each. I got them for $250ish each from DGX. Instructor thanked me for giving her shop a shot at the business, but told me some things are just more expensive through a small shop. I get tanks from DGX, as well as small bits of hardware and such. But I’ve gotten a DUI drysuit, a Dive Rite SM rig, and have a CCR on order. I will get assorted small things from instructor’s shop as they have pretty decent inventory for a small shop.

 

[BoltSnap]

No. Someone bought it along with a shop in northern RI, but closed the one in Jamestown a couple of years later. A couple of years after that, the shop in Newport closed, as well. That one was not easy to get to during tourist season, though. Supposedly there is another shop in Newport, but I’ve seen tanks with their name in them being filled at the fire extinguisher company that fills mine.

Too bad. I vaguely remember when David Swain moved the store from its original location in downtown Jamestown to it bigger location (with swimming pool). I thought it was too much for that area. That area needed a "service" dive shop that does air fills, do dads and perhaps boat dives not much more.

There was also a tiny shop that sold spearfishing equipment owned by a guy named "Charlie" but I forgot the area. I remember going to visit when I used to live in Narraganset and teaching at URI GSO. Perhaps it was "close" to Hazard Ave dive site?

 

[admikar]

That's a 5 hour drive for me so not deal, but I'll keep that in mind. Is it fair game to post on the Alabama board here and ask for instructors? I'm not familiar with the etiquette yet and don't want to cause any issues.

A lot of good stuff was already told, so I won't repeat it, but don't let this detter you.
Talk to a instructor, if you can do day-to-day training and do it. I did it over one week and I am happy I did it that way since my OW instructor was great (she dived in Syberia, dived with JC and bunch of other stuff). And she was impressed how much I wanted to learn, so she went above and beyond OW course.

 

[Seaweed Doc]

I was trained to dive at a university and taught at few also one of them was a graduate school for oceanography. In all cases the students had to use the university supplied equipment nothing else or, in the graduate school for oceanography, had to buy their own equipment based on a very specific and defined list of what is acceptable to use in the school's program with no variations were accepted at all. In all cases the programs had a specific way of doing things with specific equipment at a specific standard.

I don't find any fault with this dive shop's requirements and it isn't an exception at all.

That's interesting, as my experience (as undergraduate and grad school diver and now DSO/instructor in a university setting) is the opposite. The marine labs I did my work from had tanks one could use, and one had a fair collection of lead. But the expectation was you had gear of your own, either belonging to you personally or to your PI's lab. If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say most folks had their own gear so they could dive for fun as well as at work. Same where I am now: We require receipts showing (e.g.) annual maintenance or purchase within the last year but divers have their own gear. (Again, excepting tanks, etc.) There's no AAUS requirement that only university-provided gear be used.

I'm very skeptical on the whole liability angle on this. I live in Washington State which I don't think has substantial limits on jury awards relative to Alabama. My LDS includes gear use (OW and pool, but different gear) in the price as do I think most of the local shops, for OW courses. However, from AOW on you either own your own gear or rent from them. They don't care which, they don't check maintenance history, nothin'.

If there's an equipment liability angle on this, it'd have to be very specific to an Open Water class and magically disappear once you get certified. (And even in OW to my knowledge a student could dive in their own gear with my LDS, though it won't get them a price break.)

Let's just assume liability magically disappears at certification, as it must if advanced courses and guided dives from tropical DM's don't seem to require you use their equipment. It seems to me that the key piece of education that differentiates here is classroom based, not skill based. OW classes don't teach you anything about maintenance in the "skills" requirements, just in the "book-learning." Why wouldn't completing the book-learning make you as qualified to judge your gear as finishing the certification?

Now I can sympathize with the shop charging a steep rental fee: It basically becomes a discount on course cost if you buy gear from them. Maybe that attracts some folks. I always wondered why my own LDS didn't add the cost of dry suit rental to the cost of a dry suit course, and discount if a student bought a dry suit from them. (Every student I've certified DS has rented. I did have one who bought first but wasn't physically fit enough to walk down the beach in heavy gear so didn't get certified.....)

 

[BoltSnap]

The marine labs I did my work from had tanks one could use, and one had a fair collection of lead. But the expectation was you had gear of your own, either belonging to you personally or to your PI's lab. If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say most folks had their own gear so they could dive for fun as well as at work. Same where I am now: We require receipts showing (e.g.) annual maintenance or purchase within the last year but divers have their own gear. (Again, excepting tanks, etc.) There's no AAUS requirement that only university-provided gear be used.

As I have pointed out, in one setting, the students had to buy everything sans tanks but they had to buy very specific list of configuration (even weight-belt type was specified). Students were trained in specific configuration with specific equipment performance and configuration.


When you are in an entry level course, you don't know what you don't know much less than a student in an upper level program. The instructor in group setting needs the students to have very similar equipment to be most efficient in time and class control.

 

[Seaweed Doc]

As I have pointed out, in one setting, the students had to buy everything sans tanks but they had to buy very specific list of configuration (even weight-belt type was specified). Students were trained in specific configuration with specific equipment performance and configuration.


When you are in an entry level course, you don't know what you don't know much less than a student in an upper level program. The instructor in group setting needs the students to have very similar equipment to be most efficient in time and class control.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding: Specific configuration or specific equipment?

That is, would primary donate not be allowed, but your regulator could be from any manufacturer you like?

I think you're right about efficiency, but as an instructor I prefer students seeing a variety of gear.

 

[jlcnuke]

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding: Specific configuration or specific equipment?

That is, would primary donate not be allowed, but your regulator could be from any manufacturer you like?

I think you're right about efficiency, but as an instructor I prefer students seeing a variety of gear.

I agree. I ensure all my OW students are exposed to jacket style and BP/W setups, as well as traditional class regs and long hose primary donate. Most tend to prefer the BP/W and necklaced secondary, mixed on the long hose itself though. It really doesn't take that much more effort to expose students to the basic configurations in common use and gives them a better experience imo.

 

[Horgh]

i did not have time to read all the comments so forgive me if i repeating what others have said.
there is no SSI standard that requires students to use equip either rented or purchased from an SSI dive shop.
each shop of course can and will set their own rules for who they choose to teach and who they do not.
i can tell you that with our shop, we provide all equip needed for an ow class included in the cost.
personally, i would walk away from any shop that insisted i buy anything from them other than the cost of the training.

All equipment is included in the $425 price of the course for the POOL portion of the class. But in order to use the same shop-provided regulator and BC for the OPEN WATER portion, they're asking for $275 more as a rental fee. That is where I have a problem with it, because unless I buy an Aqualung regulator setup from them, I have to spend the $275 to complete the class. If they just changed the $700 up front for the class and provided equipment for the whole thing, I wouldn't have as much of an issue with it. I just don't like that kind of business strategy and that type of human.

When you are in an entry level course, you don't know what you don't know much less than a student in an upper level program. The instructor in group setting needs the students to have very similar equipment to be most efficient in time and class control.

I agree to a point, however... wanting a long hose configuration and a BP/W BC seems to me to be within a reasonable deviation from the rented norm. I'm clearly inexperienced, but I'm not uneducated, I understand the differences, I have the theory on all this down pretty good. Obviously theory and practice are two different things, which is why I want to take many courses, but I'm not an idiot, I'm very detail-oriented, cautious, logical, etc. I would make a good student and wouldn't be an issue for the instructor. I already understand the procedure for donating a long hose primary, I just have never done it in person.

Having said that, I'd be fine to use their equipment for the pool portion if they allowed me to then bring my own equipment for the open water portion. I don't like having my hand twisted by the additional rental fee.

 

[Horgh]

I agree. I ensure all my OW students are exposed to jacket style and BP/W setups, as well as traditional class regs and long hose primary donate. Most tend to prefer the BP/W and necklaced secondary, mixed on the long hose itself though. It really doesn't take that much more effort to expose students to the basic configurations in common use and gives them a better experience imo.

This is a good point too, and as I just said above, I'd be fine with it if there wasn't a forced rental fee required to complete the course.