My first incident...

[Julius SCHMIDT]

Then diving in confined spaces its common to have vales that, if they touch to roof the value will not be turned off by friction with the roof/ceiling.

No.

The right cylinder is normal anticlockwise to open, the left cylinder is clockwise to open.

So what happens when you are swimming backwards

No.
There are no opposite valves, have a check of your information

 

[Christozs]

I think you did a good job.
His doubles were probably not full.
20 seconds LP freeflow after 8 min divetime is very fast for doubles. A 80cft is emtpy in about 70-80s

This is possible, he doesn't need them full for max 8m depth and 30 minutes dive. We were also a bit late, so he may skipped refilling his twinset.
But i am 99% sure that i was able to switch off one of the tanks pretty fast, so it was only one freeflowing.

What's weird is that an overinflated wing somehow separated the tanks off the backplate. Did the diver use damaged plastic nuts to hold the doubles bands on? Maybe a grossly undersize nut on an aluminum plate that pulled through?

@Christozs Did you happen to get a look or picture of the doubles bands when this was all over? Anyway, you did a good job in a tough situation.

Unfortunately i don't have any information about the nuts. I didn't take any more picture as i was still kinda lost after the dive. Trying to change fast and warm my right hand that was freezing.

I'm still not sure I understand, but I think if we reached the surface and things were not in control to my satisfaction, I would have tried to ditch the victim's lead (after I supplied the octopus). Screwing around with knives.... when bubbles are everywhere and the water is freezing, dexterity is seriously compromised by cold (and leak) and nobody can hardly talk because of noise and hoods... sounds like a difficult situation.

My priority would be to try to make sure the guy doesn't leave the surface until the situation is understood and in control. He can try to get me to buy him a new weightbelt afterward, if I screwed up.

That is another thing, he didn't have any extra led. We had talked about it in one of my first dives with the club. He only has the backplate and the twinset and it is enough weight for him.

@Christozs

Second point, and no insult to @Christozs , his unfamiliarity with the twinset, increases the risk of misinformation. So trying to determine the actual configuration and failure is prone to mis interpretation.

Fourth point. Whilst diving a drysuit is reasonably straight forward, getting training and advice at the start is to be encourage, even if it is not a formal course. Unfortunately, if it is not a formal course (and even with a formal course), the quality of what you are taught can be very variable.

Fifth point. Dive protocols, such as buddy checks are there for a reason. Often as a direct result of lessons learned through lose of life. Ignoring them significantly increase risk of an accident. There is such a thing as normalisation of deviance. Which basically means the more often you break or ignore a rule, with no adverse consequence, the more 'normal' and 'acceptable' it becomes, and the more rules that are subsequently broken. You may go a lifetime with no adverse consequence, or it might bite you in the arse or worse.
Starting a dive with a problem, is not good practice. i.e. normalisation of deviance!

Diving with divers who are not competent increase risk. Whilst everyone needs to learn. Understand this point!
Diving in a three is much more difficult. Know who is leading.
With an inexperienced diver (or poor diver), someone needs to pay attention to the poor diver. If attention is being paid to that diver, attention is not being paid to you. Understand this!
A poor diver seldom has good situation awareness, and may not be aware of what is happening, to them or others! i.e. they are unreliable when things go wrong.

2) You are right, and no offense is taken! This is the reason i quoted his replies, as he may explain it better. It is really hard for me to remember 100% what was hanging at that point. I clearly remember though that the only things holding the twinset were the bcd inflator and the drysuit hose.

4) I was lucky enough when i started with this club to meet a guy around my age and double the amount of dives who was always diving in drysuit. He encouraged me to get one as i was already cold on September and we did some dives just the 2 of us with him explaining everything to me and guiding me of how to use it properly. So i feel safe in max 10m for now.

5) You are 100% right, this is stuck in my mind now. And i am happy to say that Diver 2 texted me that he already got his regs checked again, bought a new BCD and a knife. It is good to see that we all got something out of it.

About the last point, you are right. I have talked to a lot of people in the club about this issue but i cannot say much since they are his instructors. Hope after this incident things will improve.

I went back and reread the OP's comment in post #19. So the bladder failed. While I've never experienced or seen a bladder failure, I have trouble thinking that this would be sufficient force to make the nuts fail, unless those were in really poor condition. I don't want to crucify Diver1, but it doesn't sound like properly maintained gear, as many people dive routinely in colder conditions.

Yes, it is a fact that this gear is rarely washed or taken out of the car. The argument is "there is more calc in the water than salt in the sea".

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Yes, it is a fact that this gear is rarely washed or taken out of the car. The argument is "there is more calc in the water than salt in the sea".

I would never dive with either person ever again.

 

[scubaozy]

Diving is an adventure sport, my most memorable experiences involve things going wrong. Failures are part of our learning. I am pretty sure diver 1&2 are already aware of what they did wrong..
I frequently see divers hesitating which way the valves are suppose to be turned on or off, doesn't sound like much of a skill but it is quite important, emergencies require prompt action, so one must know, the direction, in any state without thinking.
I think OP valve of the wing was already frozen before entering the water due being stored in the car already wet from previous dive and it was not tested prior to entering the dive. Having lived 15 years in Scandinavia including 3 years in Copenhagen, diver 1 could be right about chalk content of the fresh water , it is really that bad. So I am not judging on that.

 

[Neilwood]

I would never dive with either person ever again.

Agreed - if I have any doubts about their gear, I would rather sit the dive out (or cancel up front) than risk my safety. They would both now have to do a lot to convince me that they (and their gear) are safe.

The reality is that situation could have gotten a lot worse quickly but the OP did well in responding. With two experienced divers (one of whom is an instructor), there is no way a dive should have gone that wrong - that is if proper gear checks and briefings are carried out. Diving with someone with a twinset for the first time should involve more than a cursory look (in particular for twins with an isolator as to how to shut down and isolate a problem). Independent twins on the other hand can simply be treated as 2 separate tanks.

 

[Belzelbub]

I would never dive with either person ever again.

I’m inclined to agree with you. Though, it would depend on my relationship with the individuals. If it’s someone I only recently met, then chances are very high that I’m not diving with them again.

If it’s a close friend, I might not write them off completely, but we would be discussing this in detail, and their reaction would determine when/if I would dive with them again. For sure there would be a probationary period.

Christozs,
Just to reiterate. You did a great job in managing the situations you were presented with. In a perfect world, the other two divers, being more experienced, should have taken a more active role, but they didn’t. You did what you could, and everyone came out of it just fine.

Furthermore, you also seem to be receptive to the feedback you’ve gotten so far. That will make you an even better diver in the future.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

but the OP did well in responding.

I wouldn't hesitate to dive with the OP. But definitely go through a pre-dive safety checks and agree on a general plan. He certainly handles stress well.

 

[sunnyboy]

I've encountered divers who just chuck their gear into the back of their vehicle after a dive and leave it there untouched until the next dive. They always seem totally surprised when they have a gear failure during a dive.

Taking care of your gear should be a high priority since you depend on it to keep you safe underwater. Not just the regs, but everything can contribute to that 'cascade of issues' that leads to a disaster.

 

[Marie13]

I've encountered divers who just chuck their gear into the back of their vehicle after a dive and leave it there untouched until the next dive. They always seem totally surprised when they have a gear failure during a dive.

Taking care of your gear should be a high priority since you depend on it to keep you safe underwater. Not just the regs, but everything can contribute to that 'cascade of issues' that leads to a disaster.

It’s depends on your diving environment, really. I can leave gear in my car for several days before it gets pulled inside (aside from computers and drysuit). If you don’t have to worry about salt, you have a lot more leeway. Or if you’re diving OC.

 

[sunnyboy]

It’s depends on your diving environment, really. I can leave gear in my car for several days before it gets pulled inside (aside from computers and drysuit). If you don’t have to worry about salt, you have a lot more leeway. Or if you’re diving OC.

Too true Marie13. I came from Alberta and we used to do a dive in Lake Minnewanka on the way home from the coast just to rinse off the gear. I have gear that went many years diving fresh water and looked brand new. Two years diving salt water since moving to the coast (that was 2006) and even with rigorous rinsing it looked 10 years older.

So yea, I meant dives in the ocean and just chucking gear in the vehicle from week to week without any attention.

Gear still needs to be checked and cared for, no matter the environment. I mean, there's a lake or two in Alberta that requires significant decontamination after diving, just because of all the Goose crap in the water! :-D