mx-10 and exposure meter led

[otterbein]

Hi there to all.
I am new here on scubaboard. I have just bought a mx-10 camera and accessories from B&H. I have also bought Joe Liburdi's book "The New Guide To Sea & Sea". I am happy with the quality and features of the camera and accessories; however, I do have one question about the exposure meter on this camera. In Liburdi's book it states that when a particular f-stop is selected and the shutter is depressed halfway the exposure meter will light up if there isn't enough light for the picture. It then goes on to say that you should open up the f-stop one stop and again depress the shutter halfway and see if the low exposure led lights up again. If it does you keep opening up the f-stop and checking the exposure until the led stays off.
I have tried to duplicate this and for the life of me I can't. If the underexposure led comes on at f-22 I can't make it go off even if I open up the f-stop to f-4.5. I have tried this by just making the low exposure led come on at f-22, and then opening up the f-stop all the way to f-4.5 and it makes no difference, the led still stays on.
In the manual that came with the mx-10 it has one paragraph dealing with the exposure meter, and it states: "If the red lamp appears, it won't disappear even when you change the aperture setting to infinity". This seems to be in contradiction to Liburdi's book. Does anyone have any experience with this feature? Are there different versions of this camera? I apologize if this question is too long or confusing. I appreciate any ideas or feedback.


Thank you in advance.

Cornel.

 

[blacknet]

Hello,

Welcome to scubaboard!

A few things to keep in mind when playing with the exposure meter. Indoor light levels are often lower than the many light meters can handle. Either take it outside durring daylight or point it towards a light.

Ed

 

[gbundersea]

I would not worry about the metering LED. Practice, bracketing, and proper use of guide numbers will deliver far better results than will that meter. I'd completely forgotten that the MX-10 even has one, and I never pay attention to the LED in my Motormarine, either.

There are 2 slightly different versions of the MX-10. The differences are in external appearance only. The older ones lack the threaded hole in the bottom used for mounting the camera to a tray. Newer ones have the threaded hole. There are also 2 variants of the strobe. The older YS-40 had 2 switch positions, on and off. The newer YS-40A is taller, has a built-in meter (more on that later) and has 3 switch positions: on, off, and auto.

Typically, the manuals which come with Sea&Sea cameras are more like poorly translated pamphlets. You stated that your manual said "If the red lamp appears, it won't disappear even when you change the aperture setting to infinity." Aperture cannot be set to infinity, but focus can, so this makes no sense at all. That's like saying "Turn your steering wheel all the way to 5th gear."

Even if the meter did work accurately, underwater photography is almost always dependent on the light from the strobe. From what you describe, it's simply trying to read ambient light. Maybe this would be useful if shooting topside with available light only, but for underwater use, don't bother!

See again the title of my post: Forget the meter and the manual!

Before I forget - avoid a common mistake: If you look at the aperture knob on your MX-10, you'll notice that there are 2 settings (f/4.5 and f/11) outlined in orange, with a little lightning bolt symbol. These 2 settings are the ones which turn on the camera's internal flash. NEVER use these underwater! Using the others, which are white text on the gray knob, will not fire the internal flash. If that flash fires, you will get tons of backscatter in your photographs.

A couple of notes about shooting with the MX-10/YS-40: First of all, while there is a meter on the YS-40A strobe itself, the camera has no way (or reason) to know whether the strobe is there or not. There is no communication from the strobe back to the camera. With the strobe in the "on" position, exposure is accomplished manually - by using the correct aperture for the distance and film being used. The YS-40A's "auto" position uses the strobe's meter to read the reflected light and shut off the strobe when it determines correct exposure. However, since there's no coupling going on between camera and strobe, it must assume that the camera's aperture is set at one particular f-stop. In fact, it comes with a sticker giving the aperture to be used for ASA 100 and 400 film. So, the "auto" setting is auto-exposure, but only if the camera is set at that one single aperture. This is somewhat limiting, and I’ve had excellent results using manual mode.

You should experiment with it in manual mode ("ON" instead of "AUTO") and vary the aperture to match subject distance. The formula is (for ASA 100 film): f-stop = guide
number of strobe / distance in feet. The YS-40/40A has a guide number of about 16 underwater, so you can go from there. The key is practice, practice, practice, and recording what you do. If you can master pure old manual photography, you've got it made. Since there aren't too many variables with the MX-10, it's not too intimidating to do so. Also, when you find a good
subject, take several shots, bracketing up and down an f-stop each way. Again, practice and shoot lots of film.

I've always shot ASA 100 film in an MX-10 or Motormarine. While the YS-40 is indeed not super-powerful, as long as you stay within reasonable distances it does great. In fact, a photograph I took at night with an MX-10, 20mm lens, MXTENDER prototype, and using Fujichrome 100 film was recently added as part of a permanent Flower Gardens exhibit at the Aquarium of the Americas in New Orleans. It was exposed very well, using just the YS-40.

I hope this helped you with your questions. In addition, here are a few general tips on photography:

Don't worry about ditching, adding, or changing gear. Most of what makes a good (or bad) photograph is the person behind the camera, not the equipment used. Too many people get caught up in the gadgets, and forget about capturing the moment itself.

The keys are reading, learning, and practicing. General photography books are priceless, for above or below water photography. In addition, there is a vast amount of information available on the Internet. Just one example is http://www.utahdiving.com/photos/pic-clas.htm. It's a complete mini photo lesson, and talks about the MX-10, Motormarine, and Nikonos V.

Read, listen to the advice of those who know, shoot a lot of film, and always record what you do. Shoot upward; don't take pictures down at "stuff on the sand" like most people do. Also, take pictures vertically ("long-ways") - most people don't. Look at GOOD photographers' work, and see what they did and how they did it. Learn the principles of composition, and use them to frame a picture which will attract someone's eye. Look for the unusual, the colorful, the majestic, the beautiful. Get CLOSE to your subject. Get CLOSE to your subject. Get CLOSE to your subject. Bracket, bracket, bracket.

Good luck, and let us know how it goes!

 

[blacknet]

Hello,

NEVER bracket! It's a waste of film and promotes horrible photographic habits, it's also used as an excuse to disregard education and a cover up for ignorance.

Don't worry about ditching, adding, or changing gear. Most of what makes a good (or bad) photograph is the person behind the camera, not the equipment used. Too many people get caught up in the gadgets, and forget about capturing the moment itself.

I have been saying this same thing for a very long time!

Ed

 

[gbundersea]

blacknet once bubbled...
Hello,
NEVER bracket! It's a waste of film and promotes horrible photographic habits, it's also used as an excuse to disregard education and a cover up for ignorance.

I respectfully disagree, to a point. Maybe I should have qualified my statement about bracketing. Bracketing is a useful tool during the learning process, but only as a means to an end. If one takes good notes, it soon becomes apparent which settings work and which don't.

Once a reasonable level of proficiency is reached, I certainly don't advocate bracketing each and every shot. I do not do so myself. However, on another level, when a truly great subject comes along, one which I want to make sure I capture, or one which may get published, I bracket the blazes out of it. I vary the aperture one stop each way, and also (since I shoot with my strobe handheld) light it from many different angles. Such subjects do not always come along, but when they do, they are are well worth the many frames I may shoot of them. (I also shoot slide film, so I don't have the latitude for correction available with prints.)

When I advocated bracketing, I was thinking promarily of these types of subjects, those which one does NOT want to miss. A single shot is all too often ruined by incorrect exposure, unseen backscatter, bubbles, fish tails, etc. Multiple exposures exponentially increase the odds of bringing home a near-perfect image of those fleeting scenes.

 

[blacknet]

Hello,

Yes they do increase the odd's of something turning out ok. Bracketing does produce undesirable habits in the photographer. I am reminded of what the late god of photography, Ansel Adams, preached. Calibration.

My thoughts are a) know your subject b) know your enviroment c) know your equipment, d) know yourself and you'll never go wrong.

When you shoot 2 1/4 or LF you learn to calibrate and the meaning of exposure quickly. I can not stress enough the meaning of proper exposure.

I have yet needed to bracket a subject because I am in control of the shot, because I strategically put myself there. I do agree it all falls back to those 4 simple rules.

Ed