Multi-bottle D-Ring Clip Order

[Rick Inman]

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Assume we're talking 2 deco bottles, leash with 3rd bottle, and SPG. What is the order your clips are in the D ring? Let's say, from the top down.

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[Bismark]

Leash on bottom, then spg, then other two bottles. Leash will pull back out of way freeing up SPG.

Sorry, did it from bottom up

 

[RTodd]

I don't actually know the official GUE answer on this since it isn't too critical. Don't need the SPG anyway so it doesn't really need to be "free." With three bottles, you will want to pull the nose of the tail bottle up to sit on the bottom stage anyway. Since you are brining it in close, you don't need a leash, just a double ender. I will often clip this bottle between the two being worn since that is typically how they are accessed. i.e. you are going to move the stage your are breathing back to the leash when you are done with it and need to bring the trailed bottle up so just make those the first two that are clipped off.

 

[Bismark]

I don't actually know the official GUE answer on this since it isn't too critical. Don't need the SPG anyway so it doesn't really need to be "free." With three bottles, you will want to pull the nose of the tail bottle up to sit on the bottom stage anyway. Since you are brining it in close, you don't need a leash, just a double ender. I will often clip this bottle between the two being worn since that is typically how they are accessed. i.e. you are going to move the stage your are breathing back to the leash when you are done with it and need to bring the trailed bottle up so just make those the first two that are clipped off.

I respectfully disagree. Why would you do something that will knowingly trap the SPG when by using the order I posted, your spg remains free? BTW, this is not my invention and seems pretty standard with all the DIR (GUE before and after AG) guys I have dove with who do it the same way. Moreover, after you have finished your bottom stage and switched to you backgas, are you actually suggesting you don't need to look at your SPG?? And if part of your bottom time is your backgas, how are you watching your gas?

Here is my the logic: 1) Learn to do something the correct way so it builds into muscle memory 2) Consistently train and practice with three bottles in the same way so that when **** hits the fan (ie: current, having to do a buddies bottle switch, zero viz, whatever) then you will most likely do it the way you practised. I am not going to go over the mechanics of switching bottles with a leash, but suffice to say, it is far more difficult to do it with a double ender. Also, it looks like you are saying nose clip the bottle off until you have used it, then use a leash to get rid of the finished bottle? Why the double ender at all when a leash will do the whole job. 02 on the leash, switch with bottom stage at about 60', 02 is now tucked under 50% bottle and bottom stage is floating back on the leash and out of the way. If anyone wants to try pulling out your SPG when your leash is above instead of below it.........be my guest and let us know how it works out............

 

[RTodd]

You didn't understand my response. It covered 80s and stages. If we are talking 3 al40s, the real world answer is who cares. In that situation I would probably put the spg on top until I went to switch bottles. 40s are really light and easy to manipulate. You don't need a leash to tow one bottle and it causes the bottle to string too far out. Again, with 40s you can be sloppy and it isn't a big deal, but the correct answer is not to use the lease with just three bottles until you get to your stops then you can if you want to just hang everything behind you.

Depending on dive logistics it may be easier to dive all three 40s on the left rather than have one get in the way inside a wreck and place them on a leash as they are used. However, in general, if you need three deco bottles you probably also need a stage so we are actually at four bottles. At this point I would nose clip one with a double ender and use a short leash fclipped above the double ender on the second because the botles lay much better this way. And, I wouldn't swim four bottles without a scooter so I would want the better slipstream of properly placed bottles.

Not intending to be overly harsh, but if you can't easily unclip a SPG under bottles on a leash, you are doing something wrong and shouldn't be carrying this many bottles. When using 4+ 80s, you should be using lighter helium fills (they do this even in Mexico) so the bottles are very easy to move up and out of the way. Al40s are easy to move no matter what is in them.

 

[Vie]

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Assume we're talking 2 deco bottles, leash with 3rd bottle, and SPG. What is the order your clips are in the D ring? Let's say, from the top down.

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For a standard T2 config, I clip on the EAN50 bottle first, followed by the stage.

You have your bp/harness on. Looking down at your left chest D-ring. Here how I do it..

From left to right: AL80 stage, AL40 deco (clipped on first), backup light.

Ok, let say you are now looking left and down at your hip D-ring. Here how I do it...

From top to bottom: AL80 stage, AL40 deco (clipped on first), SPG, leash.

 

[rjack321]

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Assume we're talking 2 deco bottles, leash with 3rd bottle, and SPG. What is the order your clips are in the D ring? Let's say, from the top down.

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I can't understand these other 2 :11:

Using 1 or 2 bottles its SPG then slung cylinders below. Let's not change that. So the real question is where to put the leash.

There are 3 choices:
At the bottom - pulls everything up and back and tangles - nada
Between bottles and SPG - works. Behaves sorta like an empty slung bottle but hooks on actual gauge of SPG holding in against your body (since the gauge sticks past the D-ring)
On top of SPG - works. Provides more open space to access the SPG and doesn't catch on gauge

Starting up on your butt: Leash, spg, bottle(s) in use.

It does not matter if are breathing the bottom stage and leashing the O2 or breathing one of the decos and leashing the bottom stages. If the leashed cylinder is full it sits on your arse without trapping the gauge. If its empty it rides up and pulls the leash tight and doesn't pinch the SPG either.

 

[Bismark]

Let me be more clear:

When gearing up, 1)first clip on 50% bottle. Bottle tail is clipped on left d-ring above SPG. 2) Second, move 50% bottle up, slide stage underneath and clip off above SPG on hip also. Stage as used will help lift 50% bottle up and makes for nicer travelling.
3) Clip 02 on leash, clip leash under SPG on hip.

When you do bottom stage switch to back gas, no big deal and simply stow stage. Next switch to 70 bottle is easy as it is the bottle on top and easiest to access for the gas switch.
Then unclip stage tail with left hand. Confirm you have unclipped bottom stage and not 50% bottle by moving it back and forth. Using same left hand, unclip leash which is easy to find as it is on the bottom. Bring 02 forward by holding leash in left hand and unclip nose of bottom stage with right hand. While not letting go of leash with left hand, clip bottom stage nose to leash, then unclip 02 nose from leash. With left hand still holding onto leash, and right hand on nose clip of bottom stage, slide 02 bottle under 50% bottle that you are breathing and clip nose of 02 bottle to left chest d ring. With left hand (still holding on to leash which now has empty bottom stage, clip leash on to bottom of left hip d ring. Finally, clip tail of 02 bottle to left hip d ring above SPG.

This sequence is very methodical and is what we practise on 3 bottle drills all the time. Also what we just did for 2 weeks in the Red Sea with AG. You can also do it on a scooter without letting go of the trigger but there is a bit more drama attached and I tended to stop for a few seconds for a part of that move......... I did film AG doing the whole thing on the trigger.

If you don't believe that your SPG will be trapped if you don't put the leash under it, try it for yourself. It is a pain in the ass, but yes, you can maneuver the SPG free. Not a problem I want to have if I can avoid it and I can so why bother.

Cave people may do this differently, but I am not a cave diver so I know zero about that. As far as the leashed bottle being in the way, you don't even know it is there if it is clipped correctly. It is out of the scooters prop wash and behind the plane of your shoulders and a non event.

I forgot one thing: It is very important that the leash always be in the left hand and you do not switch hands. Every time you switch hands you run the risk of losing your bottle and since you 02 40 is probably buoyant, and your bottom stage definitely is, they will both dissappear very quickly. Not switching hands is super important and is one thing people tend to do and that you will get beat up on if someone sees you do ........someone with blue gloves for example........

 

[RTodd]

Rjack, what you are describing works fine. I am trying to describe too many bottle size options. However, try this next time, don't use an actual leash, just a double ender. This brings the towed bottle tighter in and works better. What you want is the valve and weight of the towed tank to sit on top of the stages you are wearing. On a scooter you yank it forward once you are under way and it stays there. (When swimming with mostly al40s this is less important and leash on top is fine too.)


I find it works best to put this towed stage clip between the two stages because the stage you are breathing will lighten up and so the valve of the towed stage will rest better and stay better trapped on the lower stage than the one being breathed. But clipping off above the breathed stage works too and is often easier if you are getting loaded down with a bunch of towed stages.

 

[rjack321]

I will try the double ender trick in MX next time. Seems like it might help to counterbalance the floaty against the heavy.

At home I'm not diving loads of stages (2 at most). However, sometimes I use a leash to effectively "ditch" a bottle behind me. Although some of my bottles have overly large snaps on them and those are so big that the leash isn't really needed its more of way to free up some hip room. There's no ceiling to hit anyway. I'm not sure I'm that competent to use a double ender back there with dry gloves