I am new to this forum, new to diving. I have had a total of 2 pool dives for a recreational cert from a major cert agency. On the second pool dive I experienced mouthpiece separation due to a missing tie wrap. I did not panic, just kakked out the water and grabbed the octo. However, it's a bit of a red floag. Does not inspire confidence in the gear or the instructor. I had no idea that mouthpieces were heldon by tie wraps. so no way would I have caught it during the pre-dive check. I wonder what is the percent of new divers-in-training that experience some gear failure like this during their first two pool dives?
mouthpiece separation on second pool dive
- Thread starter davolo
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Sounds like you responded correctly, without any panic. That is a very good sign in new student!
The mouth piece can tear or otherwise fail, and if it does (only had this happen one time during a dive, in 30 years), do as you did and switch to your alternate. Problem solved, and repair is easy topside.
I am not sure I would use this one piece of equipment failure to judge the lds doing the training, unless this is part of a pattern? Go with your instincts.
The mouth piece can tear or otherwise fail, and if it does (only had this happen one time during a dive, in 30 years), do as you did and switch to your alternate. Problem solved, and repair is easy topside.
I am not sure I would use this one piece of equipment failure to judge the lds doing the training, unless this is part of a pattern? Go with your instincts.
davolo
Congratulations on handling that well. Getting a few curve balls like that is good. it teaches you that you can react and that most issues are best solved on the bottom. Since most of your dive training centers around disaster mitigation this fits in well.
The extent to which pre-dive gear inspection is taught varies wildly. Hanging out here and on the gear and incident forums will awaken you to many possibilities. Benefits of getting into your own gear after certification and sampling some options include knowing the history and being able to leisurely inspect when cleaning and while packing for the next outing.
A few zip ties and tools should be in every save-a-dive kit. Same with a mouthpiece.
Pete
Congratulations on handling that well. Getting a few curve balls like that is good. it teaches you that you can react and that most issues are best solved on the bottom. Since most of your dive training centers around disaster mitigation this fits in well.
The extent to which pre-dive gear inspection is taught varies wildly. Hanging out here and on the gear and incident forums will awaken you to many possibilities. Benefits of getting into your own gear after certification and sampling some options include knowing the history and being able to leisurely inspect when cleaning and while packing for the next outing.
A few zip ties and tools should be in every save-a-dive kit. Same with a mouthpiece.
Pete
cmburch
Contributor
During my pool dive others were using my tank for training. When it was my turn, I ran out of air in the water. Several other students were upset about it. If it could happen to them.
There is a video of a woman doing backflips swimming under water. When her mouthpiece comes off, she panics. Swims over to the diver taking the video and tears the reg out of the diver's mouth.
There is a video of a woman doing backflips swimming under water. When her mouthpiece comes off, she panics. Swims over to the diver taking the video and tears the reg out of the diver's mouth.
Thank you both for your posts. I did tend to see it as part of a pattern and withdrew from the class and requested a refund for the parts of the course I did not attend. There was a $375 charge up front, it was not pay as you go like PADI. That's another red flag. Any time you are asked to pay for something up front where there are NO REFUNDS you should wonder why. Unfortunately it's in the boonies and the only game in town. For that reason they seem to think they can do what they please. The young woman at the pool front desk mumbled something about requiring a week's notice. The course consists of 4 pool dives, 4 class sessions and a weekend of cert diving in the ocean. A fairly standard intro recreational course. I completed 3 classroom sessions and 2 pool dives. If there are 8 pre-cert-dive sessions, and a cert dive is $175 (a standard fee I belive). So, each pre-cert-dive session works out to 25$. I attended 5 of them. That's 125$, so I should get a refund for $250. ANother red flag is that another guy had some sort of incident during the first pool dive in this course. He was anxious about diving (he is a respiratory therapist. That would tend to make one overthink things I imagine) and trying to learn to dive so that he could share a sport his wife loves with her. There were 4 students at the first dive: the repiratory therapist, his wife, a 20 year old kid and myself. We all did the 'giant stride' into the pool. I was the last in, and was tripping on my first scuba experience, so I did not see what happened, but suddenly the guy was having difficulty of some sort and was with the instructor by the ladder. That was the end of the dive. I was the last out of the locker room, the rest of the class was talking on the bleachers so I missed the conversation. Next I heard was, see you all at the lecture next weekend. The guy and his wife were gone the next weekend and got all their money back. The wife complained to the cert. agency. I learned this at the next lecture. The next pool dive my mouthpiece was not tie-wrapped and my BC was 2 sizes too big, I was underweighted and the dive computer hung down to my knees. The reg hose was just long enough so that it was fully extended when I turned my head to the left. The dive comp. hose was not fastened to the front of the BC. Exactly the sort of rig you would NOT want while practicing removing your weight belt and BC.
Another red flag is that I am in my 50s. The respiratory therapist who experienced difficulty of an unknown nature during pool dive #1 is also in his 50s. The LDS is in his 50s. At the second pool dive the remaining two class members (myself and the 20 year old) were joined by another twenty-something who works at the pool. Yet another red flag. The LDS owns an underwater welding concern - I know he is a competent diver. He has spent a lifetime diving for money. I'm not sure what his deal is but it does not remotely match the mission statement on the cert. agencies homepage by a country mile, and I don't like the idea of being his next 'mature' adult target. I bought and brought a "Spare Air" to the next lecture and asked if I could dive with it. I had mulled it over all week and finally decided if he would let me dive with that, we would still be in business. If not, I would quit. He was quite nice after I sucked water - but he refused to let me dive with the spare air. So I quit. He did say he would let me dive with my own full dive gear. I considered doing that. I would have had to charge maybe another 800$ of gear and the only place I could get it in time would be the local Sporting Goods, where they have one such "full pkg" offering only. I would have had to spend a weekend camping with the LDS and two kids and
done 60 ft. ocean cert dives with that crew. Bad choices, all around. I really really had to think hard about it. Shouldn't be like that I suspect.
Another red flag is that I am in my 50s. The respiratory therapist who experienced difficulty of an unknown nature during pool dive #1 is also in his 50s. The LDS is in his 50s. At the second pool dive the remaining two class members (myself and the 20 year old) were joined by another twenty-something who works at the pool. Yet another red flag. The LDS owns an underwater welding concern - I know he is a competent diver. He has spent a lifetime diving for money. I'm not sure what his deal is but it does not remotely match the mission statement on the cert. agencies homepage by a country mile, and I don't like the idea of being his next 'mature' adult target. I bought and brought a "Spare Air" to the next lecture and asked if I could dive with it. I had mulled it over all week and finally decided if he would let me dive with that, we would still be in business. If not, I would quit. He was quite nice after I sucked water - but he refused to let me dive with the spare air. So I quit. He did say he would let me dive with my own full dive gear. I considered doing that. I would have had to charge maybe another 800$ of gear and the only place I could get it in time would be the local Sporting Goods, where they have one such "full pkg" offering only. I would have had to spend a weekend camping with the LDS and two kids and
done 60 ft. ocean cert dives with that crew. Bad choices, all around. I really really had to think hard about it. Shouldn't be like that I suspect.
Correction. The only two I looked at during the first dive were both low. Mine was at about 1100 psi, the 20 year old guy's was at 800 psi. The next dive mine was at about 800 psi. I did not check any of the others, just mentioned that mine seemed low. I was told not to worry. I did not expect the dive to last 10 minutes.
When my two kids, 10 and 14 at the time, decided they wanted to learn to dive, I searched for the right people to train them. The lds that I settled on is almost a 3 hr drive form where we live, and I pass by several other (competent, and somewhat less so) lds's, that I could have chosen. None close to us, at all, and I went with the advice of other experienced divers who knew all the regional choices better than I, picking the one requiring the longest drive.
Doing their certifications (in the end both OW and AOW); between class room sessions, pool and open water weekends, certainly required a lot of driving on my part, BUT I have always been extremely happy with that choice. In fact I decided to do training with them myself later, when I decided to update my training, and again when I decided to take Rescue.
Pick the agency and the LDS that you feel most comfortable with. Going some distance, if you must, to learn from an instructor that you feel safe and comfortable is worth the extra effort.
There is a reason you have that alternate air source, as you have already learned, and you responded correctly when you needed to.
Don't wish to start any fires, or step on someone's toes, but IMO, ditch the Spare Air, and learn to use (watch) your gauges and learn your gear. The saying: "Spare Air, when running out of air once on a dive is not enough", really touches on the truth. Not enough air in one of those things to really make a difference at any depth at all. Barring a total failure of your systems, learning to continually monitor your gauges will prevent OOA, and as a new student you should not be diving in situations requiring such crutches, especially ones that can get you in trouble, just when you start to rely on them. My opinion only, of course.
Doing their certifications (in the end both OW and AOW); between class room sessions, pool and open water weekends, certainly required a lot of driving on my part, BUT I have always been extremely happy with that choice. In fact I decided to do training with them myself later, when I decided to update my training, and again when I decided to take Rescue.
Pick the agency and the LDS that you feel most comfortable with. Going some distance, if you must, to learn from an instructor that you feel safe and comfortable is worth the extra effort.
There is a reason you have that alternate air source, as you have already learned, and you responded correctly when you needed to.
Don't wish to start any fires, or step on someone's toes, but IMO, ditch the Spare Air, and learn to use (watch) your gauges and learn your gear. The saying: "Spare Air, when running out of air once on a dive is not enough", really touches on the truth. Not enough air in one of those things to really make a difference at any depth at all. Barring a total failure of your systems, learning to continually monitor your gauges will prevent OOA, and as a new student you should not be diving in situations requiring such crutches, especially ones that can get you in trouble, just when you start to rely on them. My opinion only, of course.
You have not mentioned where in the US you are located, just that your choices are limited for training or gear, nor have you mentioned which agency you were using. Agencies have training standards, at least those agencies that I have trained with.
As for the agency/lds:
If you feel:
1) that training or equipment is unsafe
2) that your concerns have not been addressed correctly
3) that you are due a refund, because of the above
Contact that agency directly, as your former classmate did.
As for gear, if you do not have access to an lds you are comfortable with, I would avoid the sporting goods store, like the plague , and look into one of the great on line suppliers who are often recommended here on ScubaBoard. I have been happy with both Leasure Pro, and ScubaToys, and my now favorite LDS (although not so local, being more a LongDisanceDiveShop/LDDS
because of our more remote local).
There are many others here on SB. Do some searches here on the SB forum, for good advice on gear and suppliers
As for the agency/lds:
If you feel:
1) that training or equipment is unsafe
2) that your concerns have not been addressed correctly
3) that you are due a refund, because of the above
Contact that agency directly, as your former classmate did.
As for gear, if you do not have access to an lds you are comfortable with, I would avoid the sporting goods store, like the plague , and look into one of the great on line suppliers who are often recommended here on ScubaBoard. I have been happy with both Leasure Pro, and ScubaToys, and my now favorite LDS (although not so local, being more a LongDisanceDiveShop/LDDS
because of our more remote local). There are many others here on SB. Do some searches here on the SB forum, for good advice on gear and suppliers
cmburch
Contributor
Our class was at a Jr. College. So students rented gear from different shops for it. My dive shop is not to blame. I did not devote 100 percent attention to the class, depending on my wife to get me through the class material.
It may be best to train without a spare air. To depend on your buddy or be able to surface on your own if out of air.
Some students did not have good swimming skills. It has been about 30 years, so my memory of the class is not the greatest. I think all the students completed the course. The poor swimmers put in extra time at lunch or after school swimming.
It seems a shame that you have invested your time to stop now.
It may be best to train without a spare air. To depend on your buddy or be able to surface on your own if out of air.
Some students did not have good swimming skills. It has been about 30 years, so my memory of the class is not the greatest. I think all the students completed the course. The poor swimmers put in extra time at lunch or after school swimming.
It seems a shame that you have invested your time to stop now.
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