Mountaineering device suitable for divers?

[OutdoorStud]

I was in a lecture on Altitude and hot and cold injuries given by a expedition doc yesterday when we were demonstrated a gamov bag, a sort of transportable hyperbaric chamber powered by a hand or foot pump. Its big enough to fit two people (very cosily) inside and oxygen ect can be administered inside it. theyre reasonable portable at around seven kilos and not expensive at $2000. The current models can be pressurised to 2psi and i have two questions

1 whats that in bar at sea level?

2 could this be usefull in future for imeddiate temporary care of dcs on boats or in remote places.

thanks

 

[Diver0001]

1. about 0.136 bar. That translates into about 1.3m of sea water.

2. none. It would take a chamber that can be pumped up to at least 42psi to treat DCS assuming that you had the skills, training, experience, medications and diagnostic instruments available to you.

There are portable chambers out there. I've been in one that looked like a 3 meter long torpedo with windows. But even at that, there are only a handfull of people who would be qualified to operate it.

R..

 

[lowwall]

Something like this is more realistic. I imagine it costs somewhere between one and two orders of magnitude more than a gamow bag. Check out the pics, it's pretty cool.

http://www.planetoxygen.ca/fr/03-produits/flexideck.html

"Planet Oxygen offers the unique GSE (Giunio Santi Engineering) Portable Hyberbaric Chamber used by private yachts, commercial divers and the U.S. Navy. It is constructed of two aluminum alloy ends with the cylindrical portion of the chamber made from two layers of cloth. The inner layer is a gas bag made of a new composite polyester cloth impregnated with urethane for better sealing. The outer bag is a web net of cargo straps made of the same polyester material. This provides strength against the gas pressure in the inner bag and maintains the shape of the chamber. The concept is similar to an inner tube in a tire, where the seal is provided by the inner tube (or gas bag) and the shape is provided by the tire (or web bag).

The FlexiDec models are the only portable chambers that can perform a full recompression run up to 165 FSW...

[Includes] Training in basic chamber operation and maintenance for up to six individuals. One day is sufficient to familiarize personnel with set-up, preparation, pressurization, decompression and storage of the chamber. One week is necessary if the candidate must be certified as a chamber operator."

 

[pipedope]

Several years ago I did research on the FlexiDeck and it is nice if you have the money or a large club that would split the cost.

A bare bones unit then was about $25,000 and with the options you would want if you were going to use it closer to $50,000 but that did include training a number of operators.

The cost is not far from a regular chamber but the space and weight load are much less so it 'could' be an option for many of the larger boats doing tech dives.

 

[vertaqua]

One thing you want to look at with these ziploc bag chambers, is are they ASME certified. When a new chamber is being certified its hydrostatically tested to 5-10 times it working pressure. The only portable chamber that has met these rigorous testing standards is the SOS Hyperlite, http://www.hyperlite.co.uk To tell you the truth your better off just transporting to the closest real hyperbaric facility or radio a chopper transport if its remote, administering O2.

Also the fact that this company states that they can train you as a chamber operator in one week is absurd. Before you can take the hyperbaric technician exam to become a cht( certified hyperbaric technician) you have to complete a 40hr Intro to HBO course and complete a 500 hr clinical internship. One week huh

 

[OutdoorStud]

I can see where youre coming from with the training, but you don't need to be a doctor to practice first aid. Obviously this is more complex than that situation. But as a temporary measure in the meantime to help get a patient to a medically run center. mind you, i have to admit to arguing from a position of ignorance. im sure medically qualified cht's could come up with an immediate program, that people could run with minimal training.

 

[vertaqua]

Putting a person in a chamber is beyond first aid, theres a lot more that can go wrong. Especially when this particular mfg, claims an operating depth of 7ata. First aid for a diving emergency is 100% O2 @15L/min, and prompt transport to the nearest hyperbaric facility. Check out uhms.org they have a pretty comprehensive list of chamber facilities throughout the us and abroad.

 

[pipedope]

Remember that there are people diving where the quickest they might be able to get to a hospital chamber might be 2 WEEKS.

With a transport time in weeks you need to do something local and quick and that means your own chamber or IWR (In Water Recompression). To simply wait for transport is to let the diver die or worse.

 

[vertaqua]

Remember that there are people diving where the quickest they might be able to get to a hospital chamber might be 2 WEEKS.

With a transport time in weeks you need to do something local and quick and that means your own chamber or IWR (In Water Recompression). To simply wait for transport is to let the diver die or worse.

I think you'll find that a chamber is closer than you think, maybe not a hospital based chamber. It might be a freestanding clinic, navy or AF base, if i were going to do some diving in a remote area I'd want to know where the nearest chamber was and how I'd get there in an emergency. Drive, air evac whatever it takes. As to in water recompression your just as easily siging your divers death certificate right there. First theres the issue of having enough O2, a USN TT 6 takes 5-6 hrs of O2 breathing. Then you have O2 tox, what if your diver start seizing underwater. These are just a few concerns you should consider before you undertake something like this. If you want to get your own chamber by all means get one, but get one thats up to spec and become properly trained to operate it safely.

 

[ArcticDiver]

The chamber is only the pointy end of the arrow. The logistics shaft is every bit as important. In this case there is a bunch of stuff that needs to be there to make the chamber functional for recompression. By the time you research what it takes to make something like this effective you will probably conclude that making arrangements for immediate EMS response and transport to an existing chamber is the best solution.

Also, don't underestimate the value of stafff that does this kind of thing frequently enough to be thoroughly competent. If it is your own it is pretty unlikely you will be able to develop and maintain competence.