Mixed team (cc & oc)
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Super specialized? nah you guys are just spoiled with drive up cave dives complete with gear benches and stairs
I would backmount 85s in FL if I was still using a BM CCR there. Did a sidewinder crossover last month and its way easier to travel with. Plus super fun to dive even if the flood tolerance is nil. Realistically most of my FL dives are the tourist stuff for fun and practice. So sidemounting 85s with the sidewinder gets me to the hinkel, the champagne bottle, the stratosphere room, constellation corridor, anywhere in peacock, as far as I wanna swim in Madison, etc and all those other ~3-5hr touristy dive parts of FL.
100cf of donatable gas on a long hose to either supplement a CCR buddy or if I have an OC buddy is legit for most of those dives (I don't really have any OC buddies doing 104s + 2 stages anymore). At that point (if I was still in a mixed team) I'd probably bring a safety anyway vs having even more donatable gas on me. (104s + 1 stage is ~350cf /3 = 116cf, my 100cf of sidemounted BO with the long hose is just a tiny bit short of a full third to get an OC diver out). I still have another 100cf on sidemounted on the left but only has a 40" hose on it.
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PfcAJ
Contributor
Super specialized? nah you guys are just spoiled with drive up cave dives complete with gear benches and stairs
I would backmount 85s in FL if I was still using a BM CCR there. Did a sidewinder crossover last month and its way easier to travel with. Plus super fun to dive even if the flood tolerance is nil. Realistically most of my FL dives are the tourist stuff for fun and practice. So sidemounting 85s with the sidewinder gets me to the hinkel, the champagne bottle, the stratosphere room, constellation corridor, anywhere in peacock, as far as I wanna swim in Madison, etc and all those other ~3-5hr touristy dive parts of FL.
100cf of donatable gas on a long hose to either supplement a CCR buddy or if I have an OC buddy is legit for most of those dives (I don't really have any OC buddies doing 104s + 2 stages anymore). At that point (if I was still in a mixed team) I'd probably bring a safety anyway vs having even more donatable gas on me. (104s + 1 stage is ~350cf /3 = 116cf, my 100cf of sidemounted BO with the long hose is just a tiny bit short of a full third to get an OC diver out). I still have another 100cf on sidemounted on the left but only has a 40" hose on it.
So does a set of 104s and a stage though. I can't think of anywhere in peacock where I'd want or need a rebreather.
It's hard to build significant hours in <50F water up here, its cold, OW sites aren't that big, caves are far away and very seasonal and hard to recruit sherpas for. Plus OC is boring and noisy lol Hence the "I really only dive CCR in FL for fun and practice" language. Unless D3 or Indian open again, then I will for sure be getting some mix fills in the SM 85s (or 95s, they fit me ok.)
PfcAJ
Contributor
There was an interesting comment earlier from @TBone, about people not carrying enough bailout.
There was also another comment about not plumbing the BOV into the onboard DIL.
Personally I carry enough bailout. But then most of my diving in recent years has been recreational i.e generally shallower than 40m, no more than 30 minutes of decompression. Also, as stated previously, most of my buddies have been OC. The risk comes when you are pushing the CCR limits - and bailout towards the end of the dive on deep (Mixed gas dives), thats when CCR divers are pushing the limits of their bailout.
On my MOD3, we where into team bailout if we lost a unit at the end of the dive. Team bailout is not something I am entirely comfortable with - years of OC diving and having the policy of being able to get my self back to the surface with one stage failure.
The BOV issue is an interesting one. Despite being an advocate of BOV's - and recommending them to those I new who bought units, until this year I didn't have a BOV.
My BOV is plumbed into the onboard DIL. Which gives me a very limited amount of Gas if I do Bailout. But then I have, rightly or wrongly, worked on the principle that I would bailout to the BOV and then onto the OC reg(s) on the stage(s). Part of this reasoning is that I have had to unhitch my stages a number of times on dives to free myself and my buddy from entanglement. On occasion i have had to unclip the stages before getting back on the boat. Because of this, I don't want the BOV connected to the stages.
I am not saying what I do is right or wrong. In truth, you can theorise as much as you like, until you really have to bailout you aren't certain if your 'plan' is going to work. Even then, for issue 'a' it may be viable, for issue 'b' a fail. You can run exercises. But, my main concern has been the effects of elevated breathing rates due to a/ stress and b/ potentially CO2 issues.
I remember reading some facts that Navy divers being unexpectedly forced into a bailout had very high breathing rates. They where very high initially, then dropped a bit, but not to a normalised rate. It wasn't until they reached their perceived point of safety, that the breathing rates dropped to anything like a normalised breathing rate. For some it was there first decompression stop, for others there first gas switch.
Also being honest. I need to do a full bailout exercise, I need the practice!
Having recently lost most of my onboard DIL and had to abort, and plug in my off board, I have at least some confidence in myself. Interestingly, I never considered the option to go fully OC, just stay on the loop, with a new DIL source.
Gareth
There was also another comment about not plumbing the BOV into the onboard DIL.
Personally I carry enough bailout. But then most of my diving in recent years has been recreational i.e generally shallower than 40m, no more than 30 minutes of decompression. Also, as stated previously, most of my buddies have been OC. The risk comes when you are pushing the CCR limits - and bailout towards the end of the dive on deep (Mixed gas dives), thats when CCR divers are pushing the limits of their bailout.
On my MOD3, we where into team bailout if we lost a unit at the end of the dive. Team bailout is not something I am entirely comfortable with - years of OC diving and having the policy of being able to get my self back to the surface with one stage failure.
The BOV issue is an interesting one. Despite being an advocate of BOV's - and recommending them to those I new who bought units, until this year I didn't have a BOV.
My BOV is plumbed into the onboard DIL. Which gives me a very limited amount of Gas if I do Bailout. But then I have, rightly or wrongly, worked on the principle that I would bailout to the BOV and then onto the OC reg(s) on the stage(s). Part of this reasoning is that I have had to unhitch my stages a number of times on dives to free myself and my buddy from entanglement. On occasion i have had to unclip the stages before getting back on the boat. Because of this, I don't want the BOV connected to the stages.
I am not saying what I do is right or wrong. In truth, you can theorise as much as you like, until you really have to bailout you aren't certain if your 'plan' is going to work. Even then, for issue 'a' it may be viable, for issue 'b' a fail. You can run exercises. But, my main concern has been the effects of elevated breathing rates due to a/ stress and b/ potentially CO2 issues.
I remember reading some facts that Navy divers being unexpectedly forced into a bailout had very high breathing rates. They where very high initially, then dropped a bit, but not to a normalised rate. It wasn't until they reached their perceived point of safety, that the breathing rates dropped to anything like a normalised breathing rate. For some it was there first decompression stop, for others there first gas switch.
Also being honest. I need to do a full bailout exercise, I need the practice!
Having recently lost most of my onboard DIL and had to abort, and plug in my off board, I have at least some confidence in myself. Interestingly, I never considered the option to go fully OC, just stay on the loop, with a new DIL source.
Gareth
PfcAJ
Contributor
Team bailout is one of the worst ideas.
Gareth, its super easy to have your left (its left lean aka bottom stage on me) bailout have a 20cm whip with a male QC6 that plugs into female QC6 on a stage hose the comes off the BOV, over your shoulder, and is hanging at your left hip. One thing to unplug before removing the tank at the boat.
Not sure where you are doing bottle off restrictions or why, but plumbing the BOV into onboard dil so you can remove tangled tanks suggests to me that your rigging is a mess and getting easily tangled, or you need a smaller unit to actually fit where you want to go. I've been in some pretty small holes with a backmounted Megalodon and the sidemount tanks are not the limiting factor - usually its the threat of tearing a loop hose.
Not sure where you are doing bottle off restrictions or why, but plumbing the BOV into onboard dil so you can remove tangled tanks suggests to me that your rigging is a mess and getting easily tangled, or you need a smaller unit to actually fit where you want to go. I've been in some pretty small holes with a backmounted Megalodon and the sidemount tanks are not the limiting factor - usually its the threat of tearing a loop hose.
rjack321
There is a reasonable amount of mono filament line on the wrecks around the uk. That with variable visibility and strong tides, means its really easy to end up with line wrapped around you.
Its not happened to me too often, but enough to make me cautious.
My worst incidents off the top of my head
Leopoldvile - Normandy - 50m. Buddy tangled in line. By the time we had cut her free we had added another 10 minutes of deco to the 30 minutes we had. We where well into our gas reserves by the time we hit the surface.
The Duke of Buccleugh, - Eastern English Channel - 60m. Tangled in line in the hold. Took me the best part of the dive to cut free my twinset and stages.
HMS M2 - off Portland (UK) - 36m. Buddy and my self both tangled in line. I had to unhitch my stages to get free to manoeuvre. Then cut my buddy free who was well and truly tangled. Complicated by a big current trying to push us down the Sub' into more line, and it being pitch black - but good vis.
The worst experience was having the vis kicked up by someone whilst I was inside a wreck. I had to push the stages through a hole, then the twinset, then me. Then go back in with a line to get the A***h**** out. That was a 40m wreck in the Channel Islands (UK).
All my stages have whips to plug into the counterlung - if needed, or if I'm switching gases. And OC regulators on long hoses.
Most of the boats I use have lifts, which significantly makes exiting with stages much easier. Unfortunately not all. Its general practice to have the stages removed from the diver as they exit - before they walk across the deck. Much better on a pitching deck than walking with them to the bench.
I have dived off a few boats with a large freeboard, where you clip the stages onto a line before climbing the ladder back onto the deck. The big issue with these as a diving platform, is that recovering an injured casualty is difficult, even with a winch. However, the balances is between there seaworthiness and the inconvenience of a large freeboard. A lot of these now have lifts .
I like the idea of the OCB being plumbed into the larger off board cylinder. I even have an extra long hoses on the OCB to do this. However I have always distrusted the gas flow restriction that Quick Release Connectors present, not a problem on a manual injector, or inflator. But a worry on a regulator - especially at depth.
Until recently, I didn't have an OCB, and just relied on my bailout regulators. So an improvement on the old configuration.
Entanglement, generally seems to be first stages, pillar valves, and clips. One of the nice thing about CCR, is that, with the exception of the stages, a lot of the entanglement risks are minimised.
CCR is much more streamlined and clean.
There is a reasonable amount of mono filament line on the wrecks around the uk. That with variable visibility and strong tides, means its really easy to end up with line wrapped around you.
Its not happened to me too often, but enough to make me cautious.
My worst incidents off the top of my head
Leopoldvile - Normandy - 50m. Buddy tangled in line. By the time we had cut her free we had added another 10 minutes of deco to the 30 minutes we had. We where well into our gas reserves by the time we hit the surface.
The Duke of Buccleugh, - Eastern English Channel - 60m. Tangled in line in the hold. Took me the best part of the dive to cut free my twinset and stages.
HMS M2 - off Portland (UK) - 36m. Buddy and my self both tangled in line. I had to unhitch my stages to get free to manoeuvre. Then cut my buddy free who was well and truly tangled. Complicated by a big current trying to push us down the Sub' into more line, and it being pitch black - but good vis.
The worst experience was having the vis kicked up by someone whilst I was inside a wreck. I had to push the stages through a hole, then the twinset, then me. Then go back in with a line to get the A***h**** out. That was a 40m wreck in the Channel Islands (UK).
All my stages have whips to plug into the counterlung - if needed, or if I'm switching gases. And OC regulators on long hoses.
Most of the boats I use have lifts, which significantly makes exiting with stages much easier. Unfortunately not all. Its general practice to have the stages removed from the diver as they exit - before they walk across the deck. Much better on a pitching deck than walking with them to the bench.
I have dived off a few boats with a large freeboard, where you clip the stages onto a line before climbing the ladder back onto the deck. The big issue with these as a diving platform, is that recovering an injured casualty is difficult, even with a winch. However, the balances is between there seaworthiness and the inconvenience of a large freeboard. A lot of these now have lifts
.I like the idea of the OCB being plumbed into the larger off board cylinder. I even have an extra long hoses on the OCB to do this. However I have always distrusted the gas flow restriction that Quick Release Connectors present, not a problem on a manual injector, or inflator. But a worry on a regulator - especially at depth.
Until recently, I didn't have an OCB, and just relied on my bailout regulators. So an improvement on the old configuration.
Entanglement, generally seems to be first stages, pillar valves, and clips. One of the nice thing about CCR, is that, with the exception of the stages, a lot of the entanglement risks are minimised.
CCR is much more streamlined and clean.
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I have a locking QC on my BOV (shrimp) and had no flow issues at 150' when I had to actually bail out. My plan when bailing out is to switch to BOV, then to OC reg once things are sorted. The BOV was so smooth I didn't even both to switch to my reg. My issue is hose routing. I currently run it from my side mounted tank, behind then over my shoulder then into the QC. Sounds wonky, and it is, but it has been the only way I figured out how to route it where it wasn't affecting the loop hose movement. In a high entanglement situation I might have to rethink it. Although I did get the method from a friend of mine that has done lots of big wreck dives and that is the way he runs it so...
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