MARP Price Fixing Update - Consumers Win!

[Rainer]

Stop ofuscating and answer a SIMPLE question for crying out loud. You keep going off about manufacturer's controling what you charge at the cash register (not just what you can adverstize for). Please post WHICH MANUFACTURERS these are. I'd like to believe you've been honest in your previous posts. The more you avoid answering this question, the harder it becomes for anyone to trust what you've written.

Look forward to your response (finally).

Here is a post from Phils own website... not too long ago.

Retail Restrictions in the Scuba Industry - Scuba Industry Price Controls

I have to seriously wonder what has changed Phil's mind? Who did Phil sell out too?
Hey Phil, Why the change of heart? Please explain it to us all....

Perhaps Phil doesn't appreciate me as competition?

The only thing I do know is that you can't play both sides of the fence...

 

[vladimir]

Wow, offthewall1, you're appealing to our love of freedom to justify more government intrusion, citing completely unrelated polls to bolster your viewpoint, announcing grandiose plans to remake the industry, and dodging every specific question put to you. I do believe you can run for office.

 

[Web Monkey]

As many of you know, Off the Wall Scuba, along with others have been fighting the grand fight against illegal price fixing in the SCUBA Industry. Through the Federal Trade Commission, our State Attorney Generals Office and the Maryland State Legislature.

Sorry to burst your balloon, but dealers don't maintain pricing because they're required by the manufacturer, they do it because they need to make money to stay in business.

In any case, it's self limiting. Even with MAP/MARP, it's extremely difficult to make a living selling SCUBA equipment. Any drop in profit (cause by a drop in prices) will pretty much ensure that the shop will soon be Out of Business.

I think what it will do is make Maryland the Big Black Hole of top-shelf SCUBA equipment, without a single dealer for products that traditionally maintained MARP, so if you live in Maryland and your favorite brand vanishes, you know who to thank.

Terry

 

[RAWalker]

Actually this is just readdressing a fairly new interpretation of an old law. The Sherman act used to protect consumers from price fixing of the type that has been used of late in the Scuba industry. This recent price fixing was allowed by the Big Business friendly Republicans that are now virtually powerless. So now we are actually going back to an era of protecting the free market system and protecting the comsumer chain and consumer rights. You'll also probably find the near future to readdress many warrantee issues that recently gave manufacturers tighter controls while striping consumers of their historic protections.
This shake up has been 8 years in the making and is just a swing of the pendulum.
I for one welcome it. IMHO any LDS that can't survive this period of readjustment doesn't deserve to be in business.

 

[flaski]

This is one topic I have to agree with off the wall, when tied to scubapro, they are the ones making the deals with other online retailers for their inventory at failed shops, off the wall has raised my respect level one notch. Hopefully they will will learn not to bad mouth top equitment because they are not able to sell it. They will find they will do much better. I will not buy from Basspro or a scubapro product just because of their practices, oh yeh off the wall either. Its only just one of their employees so sorry to owners.

 

[vladimir]

Actually this is just readdressing a fairly new interpretation of an old law. The Sherman act used to protect consumers from price fixing of the type that has been used of late in the Scuba industry. This recent price fixing was allowed by the Big Business friendly Republicans that are now virtually powerless. So now we are actually going back to an era of protecting the free market system and protecting the comsumer chain and consumer rights. You'll also probably find the near future to readdress many warrantee issues that recently gave manufacturers tighter controls while striping consumers of their historic protections.
This shake up has been 8 years in the making and is just a swing of the pendulum.
I for one welcome it. IMHO any LDS that can't survive this period of readjustment doesn't deserve to be in business.

You are confusing a free market system with market competition. Anti-trust laws, like Sherman, arguably promote market competition, but they inherently make the market less free. Purists would argue that completely unfettered markets will lead to perfect competition, and anti-trust law and consumer protection laws are unnecessary and inefficient. They believe the only appropriate role for government in business is to administer a legal system to enforce contracts and punish fraud, theft, etc.

The recent Leegin ruling didn't interpret Sherman, exactly, but rather raised the bar for claiming an anti-trust violation by eliminating minimum price agreements as inherent violations of anti-trust law. They still might violate the law, but now you have to prove it, which is apparently difficult.

 

[Dive Right In Scuba]

You need MAP pricing to keep prices and retailers around....Look what happened to TVs and electronics. Do you really see any small shops anymore? NOPE, you are surrounded by Walmart and Best Buy, and the zit faced teen who could give a crap what you buy....Ya, I like shopping with that guy. I miss the small shops that worked for their money, and made me happy with their knowledge....I happily paid for....and sometimes the price was better.

As some have said, if you really examine the long term ramifications of this...... dive stores will fail, new divers will fall, manufacturers will fail, local dive spots will fail, dive locations will fail, you will then get mad that the independent instructors charge to much for classes or dont have the classes you want to take, and guess what damn, I guess we shouldn't have gone the way of electronics....Oh well, have fun shopping and getting air from the Shop Monkeys at Walmart....and you thought your LDS was bad....think about it

If you don't like a manufacturers policies, sell something else. Genesis doesn't have pricing policies, should be a good fit!

 

[gotwake]

You can argue until the end of time whether MARP is good or bad for the scuba industry, but it all comes down to what customers are demanding. A lot of people in this industry seem to think that the business model used 15 years ago has to be used now. You have to be willing to change to survive and prosper. The difference is I now have a choice. I don't have to walk in my LDS that sells Scubapro and drop $700 on the top regulator. If that LDS would have been able to discount their prices some, I would have bought all of my gear from them. Instead, I can find out in less than 1 minute that I can save 38% on that same regulator. When LDSs are stuck with these restrictions, they will never be competitive.

 

[Dive Right In Scuba]

You can argue until the end of time whether MARP is good or bad for the scuba industry, but it all comes down to what customers are demanding. A lot of people in this industry seem to think that the business model used 15 years ago has to be used now. You have to be willing to change to survive and prosper. The difference is I now have a choice. I don't have to walk in my LDS that sells Scubapro and drop $700 on the top regulator. If that LDS would have been able to discount their prices some, I would have bought all of my gear from them. Instead, I can find out in less than 1 minute that I can save 38% on that same regulator. When LDSs are stuck with these restrictions, they will never be competitive.

You cant just generalize that as an LDS problem. I dont sell Scubapro or Aqualung because they do that...my choice. I don't sell them because of their policy. I like to sell products for a price I like, I also think that MAP, which just says we all ADVERTISE at the same price is good.....it doesnt dictate what I can sell it for, just what I advertise it for...hence the good deal you got on your drysuit

 

[Dive Right In Scuba]

For those that dont understand differences:

MARP- The minimum price you MUST sell a product at or you get in trouble- STUPID
MAP- The minimum price you can advertise a product for. Keeps a level playing field and SHOULD give your LDS a step up in pricing as they CAN beat any online price at their store....most just decide not to.

There are alot of old school scuba shops that are set to retire soon...their old practices will retire with them.

MARP is stupid, and nobody should tell a retailer what they can sell a product for. Telling a retailer what they can advertise a product for keeps everything on a level playing field for the biggest retailer and the smallest if they choose to.....both can still sell at ANY price they want...this is really not a big deal, but ensures that retailers can make some money selling products....just like lawyers make money, your Grocery store, shoe store, gas stations, and most likely the job you have....how happy would you be making less than 10% for what you do? and people telling you that you dont work hard for that money and you should make less, and work harder so I can get your product cheaper.....take it out of scuba and put it in your job, tell me what you do and lets reverse the role....