Mares Horizon

[KenGordon]

The disadvantages of CCR vs OC:

Counter lungs - they make buoyancy harder and worst, need washing out.
Cells - these expire and always need to be regarded as suspect so extra manual monitoring is needed.
Sorb - this needs changing every so often (3hrs dive time essentially)
O2 - you need a supply of O2, this can be a problem logistically.
Bailout is required, usually a separate cylinder.
Extra training.

SCR has all these problems except the O2, it might mitigate the bailout into the same cylinder as the main gas, CCR can do that too but is is either bad practice or a bit wild and crazy like the GUE JJ.

Advantages:

Much longer gas duration, essentially unlimited.
Simpler gas logistics vs a twinset of deep gas, deco gases etc. Much more flexible.
Warmer gas.
Quieter.
Best mix at all times, so longer NDLs and shorter deco, MOD doesn’t impact O2.

SCR is quieter and warmer, not so much the longer duration as you carry less. The mix is worse than OC best mix at all times.

I think that SCR is almost never worth the hassle. Maybe the manufacturers are targeting the Teric wearers with a cool gadget but I find it hard to see where its application sweet spot lies. Is it better than an AlI80? Yes, but so is two Ali80s, or a single 15l or twin 12s.

 

[GF99/99]

My comments about the Mares Horizon:

SCR... Really???? Seriously??? Why?!?!?

That's like buying a V6 Mustang

 

[Preach]

Yes. RB divers should have knowledge about mixed gases but doing a trimix RB dive is considered to be very advanced. There are plenty of posts on SB that talk about the cost per dive and eq purchase, maybe go have a look at that. IMO, going into CCRs and not at least knowing what they are about is going to kill you or leave you out of pocket. Do plenty, plenty of research. Plenty of factors that could affect your decision of make/model of your CCR such as availability of parts, instructors and etc.

When talking about safety, the SCR and CCRs don't differ much in my opinion, its the diver and how the diver mitigates problems, it all comes down to training. with that being said. SCRs dont use 100% o2 so TECHNICALLY, they're safer.. i guess?

To OP: The Horizon looks absolutely stunning. hope more details come out soon!

For me diving a RB in recreational range doesn't make sense cost wise. I read some of the CC vs OC costs topics on this board, but how much is the profit? 10-12 bucks a dive? And this is comparing a ccr and diving oc on nitrox (32%). It wouldn't justify the extra complexity/maintenance for me. And buying a RB and training on it, is very expensive aswell. Also a lot of my dives in ow that are well within the NDL are done on air, which is very cheap to come by.

Maybe other factors do justify diving a RB in recreational range for me, but i still have to experience that for myself (warmth/silince/closer to marine life).

You say a trimix RB dive is very advanced, but my opinion is they can kill you just as easily in recreational range. There are a lot of cases known were people died in shallow water on a RB, even seconds after jumping in the water. As long as the unit/bailout contains a normoxic gas, i think there is not a lot of added complexity aside from some extra deco bail out cilinders (for the experienced RB divers, please correct me if i'm wrong).
Of course it gets more complex when going beyond 60/70 meters (195/230 feet), but so does OC cause you will need a travel gas.

I'm still a long way from diving to these depths on a ccr tho

 

[STIDVC]

For me diving a RB in recreational range doesn't make sense cost wise. I read some of the CC vs OC costs topics on this board, but how much is the profit? 10-12 bucks a dive? And this is comparing a ccr and diving oc on nitrox (32%). It wouldn't justify the extra complexity/maintenance for me. And buying a RB and training on it, is very expensive aswell. Also a lot of my dives in ow that are well within the NDL are done on air, which is very cheap to come by.

Maybe other factors do justify diving a RB in recreational range for me, but i still have to experience that for myself (warmth/silince/closer to marine life).

You say a trimix RB dive is very advanced, but my opinion is they can kill you just as easily in recreational range. There are a lot of cases known were people died in shallow water on a RB, even seconds after jumping in the water. As long as the unit/bailout contains a normoxic gas, i think there is not a lot of added complexity aside from some extra deco bail out cilinders (for the experienced RB divers, please correct me if i'm wrong).
Of course it gets more complex when going beyond 60/70 meters (195/230 feet), but so does OC cause you will need a travel gas.

I'm still a long way from diving to these depths on a ccr tho

I agree on several points you made there, I never seen a CCR for its ROI so I really can’t comment on my opinions of it ever giving me a return. Agree on the point that even the slightest could kill you as well (really just about everything could) but I guess it’s half of the fun. At least for me it is hahaha!

 

[Dusty123]

One of my dives on my 60m course was a wreck I had done before that is 130ft to the sand. id done it several times on air diluent but what a difference in clarity having helium in my diluent made. I was super impressed by this. So I think there is an advantage to a rebreather at the limits of recreational depths as you can put some helium in your diluent for a reasonable cost.

 

[W W Meixner]

The disadvantages of CCR vs OC:

Counter lungs - they make buoyancy harder and worst, need washing out.
Cells - these expire and always need to be regarded as suspect so extra manual monitoring is needed.
Sorb - this needs changing every so often (3hrs dive time essentially)
O2 - you need a supply of O2, this can be a problem logistically.
Bailout is required, usually a separate cylinder.
Extra training.

SCR has all these problems except the O2, it might mitigate the bailout into the same cylinder as the main gas, CCR can do that too but is is either bad practice or a bit wild and crazy like the GUE JJ.

Advantages:

Much longer gas duration, essentially unlimited.
Simpler gas logistics vs a twinset of deep gas, deco gases etc. Much more flexible.
Warmer gas.
Quieter.
Best mix at all times, so longer NDLs and shorter deco, MOD doesn’t impact O2.

SCR is quieter and warmer, not so much the longer duration as you carry less. The mix is worse than OC best mix at all times.

I think that SCR is almost never worth the hassle. Maybe the manufacturers are targeting the Teric wearers with a cool gadget but I find it hard to see where its application sweet spot lies. Is it better than an AlI80? Yes, but so is two Ali80s, or a single 15l or twin 12s.

Hey Ken...

''Almost never worth the hassle''...your comment relating to SCR...

I respectfully disagree...but I'm speaking only for myself...and I'll list my ''personal'' reasons...

At age 71...significantly lighter than slugging HP steel doubles...

I'm transporting/storing two small cylinders as opposed to two heavy large cylinders...especially when slugging doubles is concerned...

10 times the gas conservation over OC...

With scrubber duration/size of cylinders...no need to touch anything/change cylinders during a half day charter...two dives/three dives...

I personally like the assembly/proofing/checklist process...I have my unit tweaked to a point where it will hold a negative pressure test for 24 hours...

I've kept busy during recent winters putting fresh units together...which I'm currently in the process of doing...when dive ready...including all consumables/spares...I'm up and running for considerably less than $2000...and not factoring in the training cost...this is far less than BP/wing/harness/double HP steels/double reg set...or even BP/wing/harness/ two single large HP steels/single long hose reg set...

I will never dive deeper than 130 ft...so my SCR serves ''all'' my intended needs/purposes quite nicely...

I dive my unit with a 3AL 50...and a 3AL 19...allows me three 40 minute dives to 130 ft...including all stops...with gas to spare...

Again...just me...and I'm fully aware of the number of CCR divers that do not consider an SCR a rebreather...but...

I like mine...and as many times as I've been interested in a CCR...it's never been enough interest to justify the costs or need where all the benefits of a CCR could be realized...

W.M...