Mach V: Signature or Razor

[shekes]

I read this thread several more times. I followed all the links and read it all as well.
I still don't know what to do.

The most understandable suggestion remains:

If I were you, I would get the SS Travel Plate, a simple Hogarthian harness, a Single Tank Adaptor, some XS Scuba weight pockets, and the 30 Mach V Razor. This setup will pack very small and very light.

Having no clue I cant really imagine what the advantages of Floater's suggestion of a Mark Meadows BP, or dkatchalov's no-STA-but-STA-screws would be for me. Plus I would prefer ordering it all from one source.

xiSkiGuy, what's your take on these suggestions?
If I don't get the STA, will the aircell detach from the plate every time I change the tank? Wouldn't that be a pain in the vein?
Can I just get the screws?
I would prefer not buying something I might not need. I will need the $$ for the dives and I have plenty of gear from other hobbies I never ever use.
I definitely want some kind of padding between my poor back and stainless steel.

Floater, thank you for your explanations. I am still not decided Signature/Razor&18&30, but I am in the position to. I read several of your threads here and on ST forum before I started this thread. It is one thing reading and looking at pics and another to be able to touch it.

Sorry for the indecisiveness!

 

[xiSkiGuy]

Having no clue I cant really imagine what the advantages of Floater's suggestion of a Mark Meadows BP, or dkatchalov's no-STA-but-STA-screws would be for me. Plus I would prefer ordering it all from one source.

xiSkiGuy, what's your take on these suggestions?

I'm firmly in the camp that says use a STA if you are diving a single tank. I've used wings without the STA a few times, and did not like it.

If I don't get the STA, will the aircell detach from the plate every time I change the tank? Wouldn't that be a pain in the vein?

Yep. That was my experience.

Can I just get the screws?

When I've seen that done in the past, it held the wing in place but made mounting the tank even less stable.

I definitely want some kind of padding between my poor back and stainless steel.

I've never needed any. Even using just a .5mm or with no shirt at all, I've been plenty comfortable. If you are using any type of exposure protection it is really unnecessary, IMHO.

 

[shekes]

I wasn't able to access SB because of maintenance, time-difference and a "connection was reset" messages. Whatever that means..

I am still thinking. I consulted a few more sites, PMed and even called and Skyped with a few people. Yesterday I spoke to Joe from scubatoys. Joe consulted a diver in store who was diving Oxycheq Signature for years. This guy said that the O-pac with neither a BP nor an STA was the way to go. He said that ever since he started diving doubles and had to get a BP he has been missing the O-pac. What do I know?

O-Pac wouldn't be more expensive because I could get $5 weight pockets for it as opposed to $92 for the simple harness, and I it is already padded.

BTW I also dug up an ancient post by Rick Murchison explaining that photographers prefer jackets because it enables them to float in any position. Supposedly because the air/bubble can be kept at any angle one can hold still upside down and what not.

Finally I am trying to get everything from one source because it gets me a bigger discount, simplifies my organization, saves shipping costs (and because I really like the way they run their business at ST.)

If you guys have enough, I'll understand. If you discuss it further I'll keep reading and learning.
One way or the other I'll post the results in a few days.

 

[*Floater*]

SETUP - Wing & STA
To cut a long story short, I stuffed around with fitting an STA because I liked the idea of an STA and everyone said it would provide more tank stability. In the end I went without an STA. This is possible given that I have a newer Mach V Signature with the slots & roll control bars.

Why did I go STA-less? I found that given my plate/wing/harness/STA combo, I could not get my tank low enough to prevent it from hitting my head. It was just impossible & prevented me from being totally horizontal in the water. I tried all the different combinations and it just didn't work.

I had the same problem (and same STA). I got around it initially by putting the top cam strap under the middle of the STA, so that it's pinned between the STA and wing/plate, rather than through the cam strap slots. It stays pinned in place. That worked fine, though I've since drilled another hole to my plate so that I can put the STA lower.

 

[ZzzKing]

I wouldn't bother with the fancy harness or worry about the plate being uncomfortable to your higly sensitive back. These are just not issues when you get it all together and start diving it.

I thought you had it figured out when you wrote:

"The most understandable suggestion remains:

Originally Posted by xiSkiGuy
If I were you, I would get the SS Travel Plate, a simple Hogarthian harness, a Single Tank Adaptor, some XS Scuba weight pockets, and the 30 Mach V Razor. This setup will pack very small and very light."

 

[shekes]

I too thought I had figured it out. But if divers, who are 1000 times more experienced than I and who tried both the O-Pac and xiSkiGuy's set up, tell me that the former is a lot better than the latter, who am I to disagree?

As to the sensitivity of my back: Incidentally a heavy backpack once left me gasping for air on a mountain trail in the Andes, far from any mode of transportation. We had to turn back on the second day of our 10-day trip. Going back I carried my buddy's lighter backpack, but she couldn't lift mine. So I had to give away and ditch plenty of brand-new mountain gear and I still consider myself very lucky. Two years later I climbed a 16000'er with a proper pack and had no complaints.

I am not starting an argument. But think for a second! With my 100 dives, who/how am I to decide?

 

[Nemrod]

Diving backpacks, back plates, jackets, poodle jackets and even Hubs and I3s are not HIKING backpacks and there is no correlation between them whatsover and to make extrapolations about your hiking problems with a heavy pack and apply it to scuba gear is useless, wrong and will send you in the wrong direction.

In the water you are essentially weightless

In the water we try for a relatively horozontal postion

It is unlikely that you will need to walk very fart geared up and if you do that is what they make small tanks like a 65cg for.

Padding is mostly useless fru fru

Weight belts in the end are better and more flexible than any manner of weight integrated gizmos

I prefer an STA on a plate--my opinion and I will not be bullied out of it by anyone no matter who they are.

To lower the tank with an STA you either preform the Nemrod Mod--cutting an additional upper slot:

OR you can do as has been suggested and just loop the upper camband UNDER the STA.

Maybe what you want is a HUB or I3 or a jacket with cumberbunds and integrated weights and lot's and lot's of padding. You can dress the Hog system up all you want but it is still just a Hog, if you want softness and fru fru then get a poodle jacket.

Does the reef cringe when it sees photogs coming down the line?

BTW, I have hiked many times--many miles--solo for days at a time. The hiking backpack when properly adjusted places almost all of the weight on the hip bones and virtually none on the shoulders--so--your hiking problem is that your equipment does not fit or is cheap junk or your not adjusting and loading it correctly. When there is to much weight on the shoulders it compresses the spine and causes back pain and shoulder pain and even nerve damage.

BTW, lol, I have a bad back due to spinal deformity and injury from other things--I have no problem carrying a pack --lifting it up and down --yes---carrying it --NO, because the weight is on my hips and my legs are very strong.

Good luck

N

 

[shekes]

Nemrod, TYI my back got damaged in a car accident. Two months after completing the treatment and having been told that I was fine, I felt fine and went hiking. The heavy backpack triggered a relapse.

I simplified the story because I wasn't trying to derail my own thread but only meant to make a point. Being that: inadequate load can cause a problem. Within a year of a treating myself with my own methods I was really fine and hiking. When I climbed the 16000' I wore the exact same backpack. It was lighter only because this time I was carrying only my own gear.

I fail to see how my attempts to make sense from contradictory advice justify ridiculing me and calling me a bully.

Your (alleged) competence as a diver does not make you an authority on all other subjects and arrogance will not earn you my respect.

I am happy for you that you have very strong legs but it wasn't any of your physical qualities that I hoped to get help from

My back is fine now. So, good luck to you!

 

[Nemrod]

Nemrod, TYI my back got damaged in a car accident. Two months after completing the treatment and having been told that I was fine, I felt fine and went hiking. The heavy backpack triggered a relapse.

I simplified the story because I wasn't trying to derail my own thread but only meant to make a point. Being that: inadequate load can cause a problem. Within a year of a treating myself with my own methods I was really fine and hiking. When I climbed the 16000' I wore the exact same backpack. It was lighter only because this time I was carrying only my own gear.

I fail to see how my attempts to make sense from contradictory advice justify ridiculing me and calling me a bully.

Your (alleged) competence as a diver does not make you an authority on all other subjects and arrogance will not earn you my respect.

I am happy for you that you have very strong legs but it wasn't any of your physical qualities that I hoped to get help from

My back is fine now. So, good luck to you!

Shekes, the bully coment was not directed at you. There is a general argument for a long time about the STA vs the non STA wings and backplates. It was a generic comment--sorry that you did not understand it-- as I thought you had said that you read some of the recent threads. Your other swipes at me such as "alledged" authority and "very strong legs" and your other attempts at insulting me will be ignored and do not gain my respect. Your legs/hips carry a backpack--not your back-- legs are rarely as injury prone as backs and thus stronger and since that is the way the body was designed it is best to allow them to do so, carry the weight.

I hope you find what you need and my back was injured in a car wreck as well when I was hit by a DWI.

My advice is not contradictory, your questions are and thus the contradictory answers. You are being tugged in many directions, you will have to pick your path. Sorry you have no sense of humor, that is your problem and not mine.

Anyways, good luck to you, hope it work out for you.

N

 

[shekes]

Thanks guys!
You convinced me. I am a new minimalist, even if I never tried. I think I'll go for the Freedom Plate and the rest of Eric's rig. Any disadvantages to it? What about DSS Kydex vs Freedom.

Another thing: looking at these pics of Nemrod diving without a BC it ocured to me that I might be totally overdoing it with 30lb. Wouldn't 18lb be enough?

My initial decision to go for the 30lb was based on the consideration that it might be dangerous to float with the 18lb fully inflated in rough seas. But now I think perhaps I won't have to inflate it much (even the 18lb I mean). I dive with 8# weights but I am sure the minimalist rig will help me reduce it by half.