Lynx Shipping Status??

[jd950]

While I suspect some who post here might simply be trolling, I actually am a prospective purchaser of this computer. I had not thought about it much before, but do have some concerns. I do not dispute that you have researched the issue but I also know that, for example, portable fish finding sonar units have cautions not to use near swimmers or divers and to keep transducers well away from the area of the head, despite the fact that their signals are inaudible.

I am therefore a bit concerned about having a sonar transducer mounted inches from my head on each dive and I also have concerns about the possible effect on marine creatures, both from the standpoint of potential harm to them or even simply annoying them to the point that I am driving away some of the things I am looking for on a dive. I am unaware on any studies on things like reef fish, octopus, squid, etc., as opposed to whales and porpoises.

Can Liquivision provide any details about research or studies, etc., to reassure that this is safe and environmentally benign?

 

[BoltSnap]

What about all types of hoseless AI dive computer?? Do you think that because of the transmitter and receiver being so close to your head and body, one would get cancer?

 

[jd950]

What about all types of hoseless AI dive computer?? Do you think that because of the transmitter and receiver being so close to your head and body, one would get cancer?

No, that does not worry me much. Of course it is a very low powered transmitter that only sends out a signal capable of reaching a receiver within a few feet. The Sonar concept is new to me, though, and in this context untested. It is also capable of transmitting data for 100 meters so in some sense it is what, hundreds of times more powerful, potentially? Frankly I could mitigate that issue by putting the transmitter on a short hose and affixing it to a B.C., which I might choose to do for other reasons as well. I am curious about it, though and see no harm in understanding more about this technology before utilizing it. I am concerned about the potential effect on sea life and if there is research or data I would be interested in seeing it in order to form my own opinion of it.

I suspect it is not an issue, but I like to be informed when possible and I have never believed ad copy to be reliable information no matter whose ad it is.

 

[Islandheart]

Put mine on order....

 

[jd950]

Put mine on order....

I have not received word they are accepting orders yet...

 

[Liquivision]

No, that does not worry me much. Of course it is a very low powered transmitter that only sends out a signal capable of reaching a receiver within a few feet. The Sonar concept is new to me, though, and in this context untested. It is also capable of transmitting data for 100 meters so in some sense it is what, hundreds of times more powerful, potentially?

Actually this is not correct. Radio waves are attenuated so dramatically by seawater, that a classical radio tank transmitter must transmit at an enormous power level to reach the short distance to your wrist (3 feet). The same amount of power, put into sound, travels for hundreds of meters, simply because the sound is not attenuated by the seawater in the same way.

The Lynx frequency is also well below the frequency used by marine mammals for echolocation. It is at the upper end of the audible range for seals, so they can hear the signal but just barely.

The Israeli UTC UDI dive computer (used for text messaging between divers), transmits ultrasound at a much higher power than the Lynx, and it transmits continuously. The UDI is enormous due to the enormous battery needed to transmit continuously. The Lynx is small and compact, it uses a very small battery in comparison, because each transmission is only a few milliseconds in duration.


Eric Fattah
Liquivision Products

 

[BoltSnap]

There is much higher chance of high powered radio waves causing cancer than "sound" waves.

 

[Zman520]

Actually this is not correct. Radio waves are attenuated so dramatically by seawater, that a classical radio tank transmitter must transmit at an enormous power level to reach the short distance to your wrist (3 feet). The same amount of power, put into sound, travels for hundreds of meters, simply because the sound is not attenuated by the seawater in the same way.

The Lynx frequency is also well below the frequency used by marine mammals for echolocation. It is at the upper end of the audible range for seals, so they can hear the signal but just barely.

The Israeli UTC UDI dive computer (used for text messaging between divers), transmits ultrasound at a much higher power than the Lynx, and it transmits continuously. The UDI is enormous due to the enormous battery needed to transmit continuously. The Lynx is small and compact, it uses a very small battery in comparison, because each transmission is only a few milliseconds in duration.


Eric Fattah
Liquivision Products

Eric,

We appreciate you taking the time to clarify the misinformation, and responsibly respond to the concerns about the ultrasonic technology. How about a few minutes to update us on the progress toward release. IIRC your last best guess was hopefully two weeks ago, but probably early last week.

thank you.

Mike

 

[Dr. Lecter]

I don't think anyone is overly concerned about cancer, or any actual harm to marine life. What I would be concerned about is whether marine life that I want to see while diving might find the ultrasound off-putting.

Just based off Liquivision statements in this thread, Lynx emissions are (1) within the audible spectrum for seals, and (2) close enough to snapping shrimp sounds (which "will interfere with and annoy dolphins and whales") that actual snapping shrimp sounds can interfere with the Lynx.

If Liquivision offered a barebones ultrasonic navigation system based on this technology (wrist mount receiver/transmitter and a bunch of placeable beacons), I would buy it as a backup to lines, strobes, and planning/progressive penetration for wrecks in a heartbeat. But would I use this as a computer for diving when I'm there to see marine life? Not based on what I'm hearing in here, much less what an unbiased study might reveal.

 

[jd950]

That is interesting about the transmitters. I guess between the small size, the fairly long life of transmitter batteries, and the short range of those transmitters I just expected it was a weak signal, although the comment was really in response to the question of whether I feared those transmitters were a cancer risk and I still do not think they are sufficiently powerful to pose such a risk.

I was not trying to start any sort of argument with anyone, and was not trying to spread misinformation. The warnings I spoke of in regard to sonar transducers were not addressed to any cancer risk (here is one I was referring to: "Do not put the Fish Finder directly near any human or animal ear. Although the frequency of the SONAR is well out of the range of human hearing, there is a chance of damaging the inner ear. Do not use near diving or swimming areas"). I have no idea of the power or frequency differences that may exist between the Lynx transmitters and fish finders.

I am NOT trying to suggest that the Lynx transmitter is dangerous or that it should not be purchased and Eric, I am not disputing what you say. I am well aware of how contentious any discussion can seem to be on Scubaboard and I would really like to avoid that. I have been on the "notify" list since last Fall and am still interested in one of these computers. I was just wondering if there is technical information or data or studies that I could look at for my own edification. Partly I am curious about whether even the low level sonar signals could affect the behavior of marine life, such as causing it to avoid or be attracted to the sound source. I can't find an thing that is informative on that point and I assume Liquivision would want to provide it, if it exists. On the other hand, maybe no one has examined this question I am just curious. I probably should have made this a separate thread and not posted it in the Lynx availability thread.

I guess I was hoping for a response that either pointed me to some research or said there was no such information out there, or perhaps, that there is data but Liquivision won't disclose it.