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LX5 + SnS 110a TTL Not Syncing

Discussion in 'Panasonic Planet' started by Aquanut2, Mar 5, 2011.

  1. Aquanut2

    Aquanut2 Angel Fish

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: Upstate NY, USA
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    Looking for some trouble shooting suggestions on this. I have an optical set up using an LX5 in a 10Bar housing and YS-110a in TTL mode the Flash is firing before the picture is taken. If I set in Manual 1 it syncs fine but in DS-TTL it seems to fire on a preflash.
    Mode Switch -> TTL, Slave Switch -> ON, Light Level Control Dial -> Full
    Any help is appreciated
    Thanks
     
  2. Puffer Fish

    Puffer Fish Captain Happy ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives:
    Location: Knoxville, TN
    8,072
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    I just checked mine (have not used a YS 110 with LX-5, but just did and it triggers fine).

    So, knowing the strobe should work is a huge step in the right direction.

    Note: Oly and Pany use a different timing than say Canon. Not sure how they are different and why most strobes will work with both. Oddly, you cannot use an oly strobe with anything other than a Pany or Oly, but the reverse does not seem to be true.

    My first guess would be that you have red eye turned on, that also makes a flash and would cause the strobe to fire early.

    Would also check to make sure you are on first curtain.

    Hope that fixes it, if not please advise and will double check every setting I have (as mine works).
     
  3. slowhands

    slowhands Divemaster

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location:
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    I know you have tested Olympus flashes and I'll say right up front I have not. But I wonder how the strobe knows what brand of camera is flashing light at it. As I understand it, the strobe just turns on when sudden bright light is sensed, and off when it goes away. It mimics the flash timing of any camera, not only Olympus.

    I'll grant that the UFL2 Remote Commander flash sequence might not be emitted by a generic camera, and so you would lose some of the fancy functions like flash zoom to match camera zoom. I would not miss that. But the smaller UFL1 does not have that mode, and people say they work with lots of cameras.

    Again, I don't have either flash, but I am thinking of buying the UFL1 because I think it is just a copy of the Sea&Sea YS30, discontinued but pretty good at low power. Have people actually tried the Olympus flashes with say Canons and found problems? Help me before I spend money on the wrong product.
     
  4. Puffer Fish

    Puffer Fish Captain Happy ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives:
    Location: Knoxville, TN
    8,072
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    Well, I happen to have Fuji, Canon and Pany camera's, and last week tried out the UFL1 with an S90. It would not flash sync in ttl, but worked fine in manual. I thought that would be an issue, as the strobe only has full power and half power, but one can use shutter speed, and half power to reasonably adjust the exposure. (and/or the couple of F stops you have to).

    I understand the manual working.. there is no preflash.

    So how can a YS110 work with both a Canon and a Pany, when the reverse is not true?

    Guessing here, but the best I can come up with, is that the YS-110 does the following:

    1. Sees the preflash, turns on with it, and turns off when the preflash turns off.

    2. Waits to see the main flash and using the timing from the preflash, fires with the camera's flash.

    The UFL must be using a fixed time after the preflash to set off the strobe..

    I have to say though, that the UFL did an almost perfect job with TTL and the LX-5..I shot around 600 images with them and did not have a single incorrect firing. My YS-110's are about 70% at best.

    With half power and really good rechargable batts, the strobe will recycle faster than the camera.


    Great strobe for the money...I will buy a couple more if I can afford it.
     
  5. shaker

    shaker Nassau Grouper

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    Hi,

    I read that the sea&sea YS 01 und YS 110a don't sync with DS-TTL when the Olympus XZ-1 is set to M mode!

    My Inon D-2000 didn't fire at all with the Lx5, i set it on Full do get it working! Others didn't had this problem. It works correctly on land but strikes underwater. I never had this problem with the Lx3. I believe the optical cord was broken, but didn't found where!
     
  6. Puffer Fish

    Puffer Fish Captain Happy ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives:
    Location: Knoxville, TN
    8,072
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    That is correct. In manual, there is no preflash.. that is true with most camera's. You have to use manual strobe with manual camera.

    Optical cable is a thin piece of glass...not difficult to accidently break it...
     
  7. Basileus

    Basileus Angel Fish

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  8. Puffer Fish

    Puffer Fish Captain Happy ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives:
    Location: Knoxville, TN
    8,072
    143
    0
    Basileus, It is a bit more complex than that. While Oly makes the strobe controls, they are similar and not identical.

    I have a LX5, GH1 and GX1, and the strobe controls are similar, but not exactly the same.

    However there a couple of things in common:

    1. None will sync with the YS110 in auto.[

    2. They will sync with the camera in auto and the strobe in manual (have not tried the E-PL1.

    3. Even if you get it to work (I have both models of the Oly strobes), and you are in shallow clear water with bright sun...they stop working.

    That is because if the total light coming to the camera exceeds the amount it expects, it adds an extra preflash at a lower level...which the remote strobes are not expecting.

    There is also a timing issue...to match a camera, the 110a has to sync with the timing of the camera's....and it seems that oly does their timing differently. From what I can tell, they add the space time onto however long the preflash is...while others use a fixed time for their total preflash time...meaning sometimes it works and other times it does not.

    I have had great success using the oly strobes (what a surprise), but only in manual. S&S also seeems to work, with the camera in auto, and the strobe not even firing a preflash (in manual). Turns out to be easier than I expected and seems to work in all kinds of lighting (as long as you keep the light reaching the sensor at least two units less than it would get from ambient (might be 3, but it is around there).

    Actually pretty happy now.
    QUOTE=Basileus;6368108]Suffer the same issue (not syncing) but with E-PL1. both cameras are using practically the same on-board flash ideology. my post about my problem with a graphs of light output is here
    http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/sea-sea-society/422384-e-pl1-110a-ds-ttl-out-sync.html

    Did you solve a problem? How?

    Thanks![/QUOTE]
     
  9. Basileus

    Basileus Angel Fish

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    Puffer Fish, thanks for reply!
    Definitely I understand differences in Oly and Pana optical sync protocols, especially with RC feature support. Pana has no optical RC feature at all (am I right?) – this why you are using UFL -2 in manual only. Actually I am not clear with a situation of DS-TTL support on 110a for E-PL1. Yes, camera is on the list, but I see a number of claims regarding this support in fact. And I see no “happy end”, only recommendations to use it in manual. And I can use it, but I’ve been paid for extra functionality that does not work.
     
  10. Puffer Fish

    Puffer Fish Captain Happy ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives:
    Location: Knoxville, TN
    8,072
    143
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    Basileus, That is correct, no RC.

    Actually the UFl-2 works in auto (one of the two types they give you), but there is a problem using it. If for some reason you get a complete flash dump (say you are shooting into just water), the recycle time is something around 12 second. I absolutely hate that. So I just use 1/4 (most of the time) and the flash recycle is faster than the camera.

    I own UFL1's, UFL2's, YS110's and YS1's...so can test any of them (sadly, don't own YS110a, but I understand the control is the same as the YS1's.

    Not only does Oly using that slightly different timing pattern, but they also look for the intensity of the preflash...both or either can cause TTl to not work. As it only looks for too strong of a preflash, using the camera in auto (as there is not manual flash control with the LX5) and the strobe in manual works, because the flash timing is alway the same (the strobes don't send out any preflash) and the strength is basically zero. Down side is it causes the camera strobe to fire at maximum (thankfully it is not that strong).

    The UFL2 works because it uses then same timing pattern, and the strength of the preflash matches the camera. Sea and Sea strobes seem to have a much stronger preflash and only sometime match up with the timing.

    I can get the YS1's to work in deep water, with not the best vis. I cannot get them to work when shallow and in clear water. Manual works in both conditions.

    Spent a great deal of time trying, using different setting, different strobe adjustments, and anything else I could think of...I could change the point it stopped working, but not the problem.

    If I wanted to, I can use auto TTL when diving in dark conditions (rather normal here in Destin, Fl), but I have gotten used to using the strobes set in manual, as it turned out to be much easier than I though.

    Understand your frustration with having something that sort of work, but I would have said you cannot effectively use Sea and Sea strobes (not tested the new ones) with any Panasonic in TTL under all conditions.

    As a side note, most the students I teach are using the oly zx1, which does have manual stobe setting, and I own (in addition to a lot of canon stuff) the LX5, GH1 and GX1. I do happen to like the Panasonic family better, except for this flash issue. I also understand that Inon strobes can and do work with both camera's in TTL (just don't own any).



     

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