Looking to "upgrade", need assistance

[jfe]

Here is my dilemma, I am a recreational diver, love to dive wrecks and occasionally down to 30 – 35 meters (100 – 115 ft.). Dive warm and cold water, but not freezing, nothing that require more than a 7mm suite. I also dive EAN 32 % mostly, never really more than that. I also travel 2 – 3 times a year to different diving destinationand take my own kit with me every time, being it local or international trips.
I dive with old style Mares MR22 1^st stage andMares Abyss (old style) 2^nd stage. They are performing well and I have no issues, but I think I’m due for a “to dad from dad” gift this Christmas. Even though I service them annually at a Mares center and they are hassle free it’s like driving an 80’s model car with medium mileage and well maintained, it is still good but you know the new models are just more refined, well that is what I keep telling myself. On a 3^rd / 4^thdive for the day these also tend to get a little heavy on the jaw.
So with budget (what I’m allowed) and reading up on someof the newer models I’ve kind of narrowed it down to 3 options. What would you guys recommend from these:
Poseidon Xstream Mk3
Apeks XTX50
Atomic Z2X
Your experienced, informed opinions are appreciated.

 

[John A Lewis]

I dove almost exclusively with Poseidon regs, and have no trouble recommending them to anyone.

Having said that, contact the shop at 972-820-7667 to ask Joey for details on all three brands, as well as pricing. Good luck in your search!

Poseidon products

Atomic products

 

[Ouvea]

Have never used a Poseidon regulator but I do own the Atomic Z2/B2/M1 regulators. In addition, I've had the opportunity to try out the Apeks XTX50 and some copies of the model (Hog). All of them breathes more easily than the Mares Abyss or Proton.

Let ergonomics, hose routing and ease of service determine your choice. Of course, if you Ice dive, then you will want to migrate more toward the sealed first stage of the Apeks regulators. If you blind folded me, I doubt I could tell the difference between my Atomics, an Apeks, a Hog or even a Scubapro S600/A700.

O.

 

[halocline]

I dive with old style Mares MR22 1^st stage andMares Abyss (old style) 2^nd stage. They are performing well and I have no issues, but I think I’m due for a “to dad from dad” gift this Christmas. Even though I service them annually at a Mares center and they are hassle free it’s like driving an 80’s model car with medium mileage and well maintained, it is still good but you know the new models are just more refined, well that is what I keep telling myself. On a 3^rd / 4^thdive for the day these also tend to get a little heavy on the jaw.


Your experienced, informed opinions are appreciated.

The car analogy doesn't really work. Newer cars are quite a bit better in almost all regards; they're safer, last longer, and more fuel efficient. New regulators are not any better than the best ones from the 80s (and before), in fact the main thing that's changed is that they are cheaper to build and designed to A) provide impressive numbers on breathing machine tests, and B) have 'features' that salesmen can point to in order to sell them. Neither of these qualities improves the dive experience one bit.

It's very possible that you would buy a new regulator set and notice either no difference or minimal improvement in some areas.

If your main issue is jaw fatigue, you should understand that this is not caused by the regulator itself, but by hose length/routing and mouthpiece design. The 'weight' of the 2nd stage has little to no effect because it's filled with air in the water. Small plastic 2nd stages look appealing in the dive shop, but in the water they actually have disadvantages. They tend to rely on increased venturi assist, which the breathing machines love but many humans don't. It's a matter of feel. Smaller 2nd stage means faster air flow within the 2nd stage, which means colder drier air going down your throat.

So not to put a damper on your new regulator idea, but why don't you try a different hose length or one of the braided hoses that are more flexible, and a new mouthpiece, maybe one of the moldable mouthpieces like sea cure. Then spend your money on some extra diving or a great dinner or something really fun.

It's interesting; I was recently pulling out a bunch of regulators from my closet (I have a bit of a regulator acquisition problem) and putting together a set for an upcoming cave trip. I always end up using the older models; they are simply more enjoyable to dive with (IMO) and the simplicity/longevity gives me great confidence for using them in potentially dangerous conditions.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

As above, you may well be disappointed. A light flexible braided hose does a lot for comfort and try a fancy mouldable mouthpiece. If you gotta spend money, maybe a brand new, soft, flexible suit ???? Or spend on diving.

My kid has always used old used regs and last Xmas I bought him a brand new fancy reg. After a few months he admitted that he likes his old original reg. Better. So I sold it. First new reg I bought in 30/years and it is gone already

 

[tbone1004]

I'm with Halocline. Your regs are every bit as good as the ones you mentioned for the diving you are doing. My Poseidon Jetstreams are at least 20 years old, and work just as well as the brand new ones coming off of the line today. They take me deep, they take me very far back in a cave, and have never let me down. I have used Apeks, Hog, Scubapro, Atomic, new Xstreams etc, but keep coming back to my Jetstreams. Actually just bought 3 more of them....

I am a HUGE Poseidon fan, but recommend them to few because they are a bit unique. The Xstream is a beautiful reg though and would serve you well.
Atomic is not something I would recommend based on your location, Scubapro MK25/S600 would be a better decision. The S600 will be quite a bit lighter.
Apeks XTX50 is going to offer you no real improvement, especially in weight.

Of those, for your location and situation, I'd go MK25/S600 and buy them used, if you're wanting to replace. Here's my suggestion.

Get a new hose set, braided hoses, in the proper lengths, and switch to something similar to the Advanced OW hose kit from Dive Rite. 22" for your secondary around your neck, 40" on a swivel or angle adapter coming up under your arm. With braided hoses this will reduce a lot of jaw fatigue for you.
Second would be to get new mouthpieces. Consider either a Seacure style or a Comfobite style mouthpiece which will help reduce jaw fatigue.

The combination of those two things will cost somewhere around $100USD, and bring your current regs back to life. If you still want to buy new regs for the sake of buying new regs, Scubapro MK25/S600 would be my recommendation. You get the swivel 5 port first stage which makes hose routing quite nice, metal barrel second stage, very lightweight design, serviceable everywhere, etc etc.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

I agree, old but well maintained regs from solid companies are a much better option than many of the new regs available.

 

[Nasser]

If you're in Qatar then I would say Apex and Scubapro are your best options and easily serviced in your region. I've been diving Scubapro regs for nearly 20 years in primarily warm water conditions for both sport and tech diving. They have been very reliable with an established track record and are easily serviced almost anywhere in the world. You can't go wrong with Apeks either.

 

[halocline]

I agree, old but well maintained regs from solid companies are a much better option than many of the new regs available.

Great to see you back on this forum, DA!

 

[USdiver1]

I'm in agreement with trying new hoses on your MR22-Abyss. A longer, braided hose makes jaw fatigue a thing of the past, and the Mares regulator you have is a very good unit, it's design dating back to the Voit/Swimaster MR-12 of the 1960s. Personally, I prefer the air delivery of the Mares Abyss to the Poseidon, as the venturi effect of the Poseidon is a little too strong for my liking. That said, the Poseidon is an excellent regulator, and also one whose design has passed the test of time.