Long hose for a new diver

[Slonda828]

Anyone have pictures of this 40" primary setup that they could post?

 

[CalgaryDF]

Unfortunately I don't have any pictures.

 

[Peter_C]

Speaking as a regulator technican, this is not true. Any downstream second stage with the appropriate amount of spring rate in the second stage and specified intermediate pressure acting against the downstream seat will breathe as good as any other second stage, provided that the cracking pressure is set correctly. The reason that most octos breath noticeably harder is because they are specifically set to a higher cracking pressure from the factory to avoid freeflow. Even adjustable second stage octos are set to a higher factory cracking pressure by most manufacturers than their primary counterparts. If you recommend something, please be sure you are correct as to why you are recommending it. The only things that dictate work of breathing are second stage orifice diameter, diaphragm size, the mechanical advantage of the lever, and the rate of the spring acting to close the low pressure seat.

Speaking as a diver using a regulator underwater, have you breathed off of a R295, with a higher cracking pressure, at 90 feet? I recently sold an MK2 R295's set up for $100 since that is about what they were worth. That is the equivalent of my bungeed S600 with the knob turned in. No thanks! I open my reg up as soon as possible, even in 20 feet of water as it takes to much work to get air. I keep the long hose reg tuned so it will bubble gently with the knob all the way out. Now many mid range second stage regs that are non adjustable, can with a couple of parts be upgraded to become adjustable second stages.

Now the beauty of all this is...we are entitled to our own thoughts and feelings

I guess you could, I am just trying to visualize how it would work with a shorter, bungeed secondary. I've never seen a regulator configured that way, it's kind of the opposite of a standard setup.

Fairly common setup actually. I have seen a bunch of local divers set up that way. After reading about many of the swivel failures on here, I will learn from others problems.

We're both going with MK17 1st stages and G250v seconds. I'm going to wear another G250v in the "std" config and she's going with a R295 Octo.

The MK17 and G250V regs will serve you for years to come and are one of the top regs out there. Make sure you are both comfortable breathing off the R295 underwater, then you will know what to expect.

 

[Sas]

Still, if 99% of the divers will not be using it, it may be better to go with the norm for now and change to a long hose later. Assuming I do that is it "OK" to use a regular reg as an octo on a yellow hose, instead of a reg with brightly colored purge?

I think if you plan to switch after OW you can start with a long hose. There is no reason not to do your OW with it. I see many different types of hose setups around so people just have to get used to the fact that they may encounter all sorts of setups, long hose or other wise.

Neither of my purges are brightly coloured, use what you like. Again you will find all sorts of different colours. Just make sure to go over both you and your buddy's equipment if you are not used to diving with them. It is never a good idea to assume someone has a standard setup. None of my buddies have a setup that is exactly like mine so you just have to learn how everyone's equipment works. I'd love it if they all had gear the exact same as mine but we all have different tastes unfortunately

IStill, the fact remains that outside of this board very few people dive with a long hose. It's nice if that's how you want to dive, but unless your dive buddy is configured the same way, then it really does not matter.

I really think this comes down to geographical location as to how common a long hose setup is so I think you should avoid assuming that it will not be common. Plenty of people dive with a long hose locally to me. Not the majority for sure, but I know many people who use it and I tend to see at least a few setups like this on the charter boats each time I go and dive. Out of my regular buddies, it's probably about 30% with long hose setup. Some have 40' primary (seems to work ok for them, not my thing though), few of us with 5', one with 4', and a bunch more with 7', etc.

Furthermore, everyone is taught to abort the dive immediately upon entering into an out of air emergency. For open water diving, you simply do not need a long hose as there are no restrictions to swim through, and no overheads to negotiate. Still, if you want to dive open water with a tech setup, more power to you. There are no SCUBA police.

Actually sharing air is not necessarily something that only occurs in an OOA situation - there are other uses for a long hose. I have shared air with buddies to extend their dive. A few times someone has shown up with half a tank or something like that so we just share air until we are even and then carry on alone. But, I wouldn't like to do a dive like this with 'standard' (if there is such a thing) hose setup. With a 5' hose it is very comfortable When I have had buddies go OOA it was definitely more comfortable to ascend with the long hose setup. But, depends what you like. But I do not think the argument that you won't need a long hose because you ascend immediately is a good one, because there is still the ascent to consider and having a panicky diver right up in my face is really not an ideal situation for me. So, I like a long hose in OW.

I guess you could, I am just trying to visualize how it would work with a shorter, bungeed secondary. I've never seen a regulator configured that way, it's kind of the opposite of a standard setup.

I have one buddy who has it under his arm with his backup bungeed under his neck. No pictures though, as he only recently swapped to this.

 

[Slonda828]

Speaking as a diver using a regulator underwater, have you breathed off of a R295, with a higher cracking pressure, at 90 feet? I recently sold an MK2 R295's set up for $100 since that is about what they were worth. That is the equivalent of my bungeed S600 with the knob turned in. No thanks! I open my reg up as soon as possible, even in 20 feet of water as it takes to much work to get air. I keep the long hose reg tuned so it will bubble gently with the knob all the way out. Now many mid range second stage regs that are non adjustable, can with a couple of parts be upgraded to become adjustable second stages.

Look, I appreciate your sentiments, but the fact remains that if I took both of those regulators and set their cracking pressures the same, ceteris paribus, they would breathe the same unless the case geometry, ventruri, or something else changed. Maybe you sold your regulators because the cracking pressure wasn't set right. That's fine though, I do not expect everyone to be a tech. I was only trying to imply that there is no voodoo to regulators. Even the ANSTI machine is kind of misleading because it is virtually impossible in sport diving to even approach the RMV of some of the test parameters (ask Greb Barlow for more clarification on that point). The point is, that 95% of all regulators will breathe great if they are tuned right. The gentleman above was trying to say something that was not correct, so I explained why.

 

[Slonda828]

I really think this comes down to geographical location as to how common a long hose setup is so I think you should avoid assuming that it will not be common. Plenty of people dive with a long hose locally to me. Not the majority for sure, but I know many people who use it and I tend to see at least a few setups like this on the charter boats each time I go and dive. Out of my regular buddies, it's probably about 30% with long hose setup. Some have 40' primary (seems to work ok for them, not my thing though), few of us with 5', one with 4', and a bunch more with 7', etc.

You are correct, I should have said that this setup is not common to Florida ocean diving, Georgia diving, Pennsylvania diving, Cayman Island diving, diving in The Bahamas, or diving in Greece. For all I know it could be the standard setup everywhere but those places as those places are where I dive. I have also never done an open water class with a student in a tech setup. I would gladly welcome them, but nobody has ever shown up that way. Maybe I just need to wait for someone who sits on this forum for hours before they take their first open water class and then they'll show up in a BP/W with a long hose This place is funny.

 

[Gombessa]

Maybe I just need to wait for someone who sits on this forum for hours before they take their first open water class and then they'll show up in a BP/W with a long hose

Somehow I don't imagine that's unheard of.

 

[Cave Bum]

If one of my students asked me if they could start their training using a "long hose" I'd have the following reactions:

a. Great -- glad you made a reasonable choice; BUT

b. FOR THE CLASS, hold off, use a shorter hose (40 inch?) on your primary -- i.e., one that does NOT wrap around your neck.

And there is one simple reason -- that (stupid) snorkel you are required to actually use during a PADI OW class...

By using a 40 inch hose on your primary, along with a bungied backup, you will still donate your primary (GOOD IDEA!) but you won't have the issues related to getting it wrapped around the (damn) snorkel (not to mention the issues related to someone saying, What Have You Got There?). It is a very simple step from using a 40 inch, open water setup, to the longer 5 or 7 foot hose.

I use a 40 inch hose on my primary for my "confined water" teaching (along with an AirSource inflator/reg combo) but switch over to the more traditional long hose/bungied backup for open water (because in open water I don't have to demonstrate any skills therefore I put my snorkel in my pocket).

Peter,

I hadn't thought of the snorkel issue. That would make it more difficult. I teach with my student rigs having a 40" primary and a Rite Source integrated inflator/reg combo. As you mentioned, it has them donating the 'known good' reg and I think that's a great system to teach right from the git-go.

The only trouble I've had is sometimes when the students are doing the reg recovery the reg drops back behind them making it harder to recover. It seems to do this more with a 40" hose then with a standard (23"?) hose, I'm not sure why unless it's because the hose is 'less stiff' being longer. Have you seen this at all in your teaching with students using the 40" hose?

Bruce

 

[paddler3d]

Yes. To prevent "pull", some folks use a "swivel" that attaches to the 2nd stage and points down (it is actually a fixed 90 deg. elbow fitting, not sure why it is called a swivel ).

There is one out there that actually exists. It costs around $65usd. My buddy/instructor got it through the shop. It swivels on a single plane and it goes from straight to 90degrees. It is pretty sharp. I do have my reservations though. If you want, I can get the brand info and post it.

 

[ptyx]

Swivel:

I had the above fail when the center axle got stuck - turning the swivel would actually open/close the sphere - and although the construction was quite ingenious, I'm not trusting those any more after having a look at the inside

Elbow (but it's also called swivel on DGX, go figure...):