Liveaboard cancellation policies?

[WOODMAN]

The subject of liveaboard cancellation policies came up in another thread I am running, and I thought it was controversial enough to merit it's own thread. The Juliet's policy of no refunds even if sailing is delayed or forced to cancel caused a pretty negative reaction among some responders, and others,(myself included) thought this was fairly normal across the liveaboard industry. What have your experiences been? Is this a unreasonable stance for the boat owners to take? Or do you think this is just one of the risks involved with liveaboard diving? My one actual experience with this was with Explorer Ventures, when a tropical storm almost completely washed out a trip I took with them on the Caribbean Explorer a few years ago. The owner contacted me when I returned from that misbegotten adventure, and said that even though he had no liability for this (as specified in the contract agreement). he felt unhappy with the situation and offered me a free trip with the same boat anytime within the next year. Needless to say, I took him up on this and had a grand time the second go-around. So what are your feelings, observations, experiences, etc? Woody

 

[Wookie]

US based liveaboards tend to have different policies. In the case of the Spree, if we don't leave the dock, your refund is offered immediately. In addition, if the call is iffy, we will attempt to make the weather call as far in advance as we can so you don't end up in Key West ready to get on a boat that isn't going to sail. If we actually do go out and the weather turns sour on us, we will issue you a voucher for future travel taking into account the number of dives you missed. If the boat is mechanically unsound and the dives are not able to be made (for instance, all of the air compressors fail), we will issue a cash refund based on the diving you missed. If someone gets hurt while on a trip and the boat must return to port instead of evacuating the injured passenger, vouchers may be issued on a case by case basis.

 

[divengolf]

US based liveaboards tend to have different policies. In the case of the Spree, if we don't leave the dock, your refund is offered immediately. In addition, if the call is iffy, we will attempt to make the weather call as far in advance as we can so you don't end up in Key West ready to get on a boat that isn't going to sail. If we actually do go out and the weather turns sour on us, we will issue you a voucher for future travel taking into account the number of dives you missed. If the boat is mechanically unsound and the dives are not able to be made (for instance, all of the air compressors fail), we will issue a cash refund based on the diving you missed. If someone gets hurt while on a trip and the boat must return to port instead of evacuating the injured passenger, vouchers may be issued on a case by case basis.

Frank,

Sounds overly fair. In this life, one must roll the dice and take one's chances.

BTW Key West isn't such a bad place to end up in.

Harry

 

[Quero]

Here in Thailand, there is always a "Force Majeure" policy in place. Our liveaboards have salaried staff, so if weather or other unavoidable problems come up delaying or canceling a trip, there are no refunds, though some boats will offer a voucher for a future trip. These vouchers, however, are often of little use to people since they don't live anywhere near here, so getting another trip here to redeem the voucher is impractical. I've had customers want refunds due to their own ill health, and while operators are sympathetic and will go out of their way to assist, they cannot be asked to lose income due to a problem they have no control over. Issues that are the "fault" of the operator, however, are subject to refunds; these might include a cancellation due to insufficient bookings, mechanical troubles, and other such problems.

I always suggest that divers purchase trip insurance as a hedge against illness, accident, family emergencies, weather and other unforseeable events that may force them to miss their trip.

 

[Rhone Man]

Speaking as a lawyer, it is really a question of risk allocation for businesses. It would be perfectly possible for the liveaboards (as a business) to insure against the risk of cancelling, and build that premium into the cost of week long charter. Or they could keep their prices lower and give the customer the option of insuring against that risk (or not). The former is usually cheaper, but leads to lower flexibility. I prefer giving the customer the choice to either accept that risk or insure against it.

 

[drrich2]

It seems to me that a live-aboard operator contracts to provide a service to the diving customer. If the operator does not provide that service, for whatever reason on the condition the reason is not the fault of the customer, then a refund should be issued.

For an analogous situation, let's say that a local car dealership offered to sell me a car for $20,000, and the arrangement was I'd send them the money in advance, they'd order the car, & I'd come pick it up. But when I went to pick it up, they said a tornado hit the factory & the car was destroyed before it shipped to me, but they're keeping my money.

If I pay $1,800 for a live-aboard trip, & I show up ready, willing & able to participate and you cancel that trip for reasons not due to my actions (e.g.: bad weather), it seems ridiculous for you to send me home & keep my money.

Richard.

 

[Quero]

Actually, if you bought that car and a tornado hit the factory delaying delivery of the car, whether you would get a refund and when would depend entirely on the contract you entered into with the seller of the vehicle. Many automobile brokers have a clause giving them a specific window for delay, e.g., 30, 45, 60 or 90 days before the contract is considered void and a refund due. If you expected the car and had an outlay of hundreds of dollars in car rental fees due to the delay, the seller is typically under no obligation to cover those losses unless so stipulated in the contract you and the seller sign.

It's pretty much the same thing when booking a liveaboard. Customers should always ask about cancellation and refund policies because as soon as a deposit payment is made, the assumption is that all terms and conditions have been accepted. Customers are not in a position to dictate to the operator what the policies should be--that's for the company to decide, and the customer has to take it or leave it. But at least the customer will have the information needed to make a decision as to whether or not to book with that operator and whether or not to buy trip insurance.

Imagine if a boat had to refund trips for anything that the customer feels isn't his/her fault.... what if weather delayed the customer's flights so that the boat sailing was missed? What if there was an automobile accident on the highway the customer was using to get to the airport making them miss their flight? What if there was a travel warning to the country where the destination is located and the customer decided not to go? None of these is the customer's "fault"....

 

[vladimir]

It seems to me that a live-aboard operator contracts to provide a service to the diving customer. If the operator does not provide that service, for whatever reason on the condition the reason is not the fault of the customer, then a refund should be issued.

With a reputable liveaboard operator, you will enter into an explicit contract. The terms should be clearly spelled out. If the terms are not acceptable to you, don't enter into the contract--simple.

As a customer, your interests are generally aligned with those of your service provider. The continued viability of his business depends on satisfying his customers. If he seizes upon a flimsy excuse to keep payment without providing service, his business will be short-lived. That is your protection.

 

[drrich2]

Imagine if a boat had to refund trips for anything that the customer feels isn't his/her fault.... what if weather delayed the customer's flights so that the boat sailing was missed? What if there was an automobile accident on the highway the customer was using to get to the airport making them miss their flight? What if there was a travel warning to the country where the destination is located and the customer decided not to go? None of these is the customer's "fault"....

I see your point, but there is a significant difference vs. my position.

My position assumes the customer shows up at the dock, so to speak, at the appointed time, that the live-aboard is to pick him or her up for the trip. It is not the live-aboard's responsibility to ensure that the customer makes it on time. If the customer's flight is cancelled or his car breaks down & he doesn't show up, and is not present to accept receipt of the service, then no, I see no obligation for the live-aboard company to provide a refund.

My position assumes that, for example, I have paid the live-aboard provider $1,800 for a 1 week trip, where I'm to meet up at the dock for boarding on Saturday Jan. 7'th 2012 to return Saturday Jan. 14'th, for example, and having paid the money, I do in fact show up on the dock at 6 a.m. 1-7-12 per my obligation, and the Captain opens the door, says there's a sudden onset tropical storm that's just developed & headed this way, the trip is cancelled, 'I guess it sucks to be you,' and shuts the door in my face, no refund.

I'm aware that with clever contract working you can prevent any successful lawsuits from getting the money back, and if the laws of your society are one's sole moral compass, so to speak, that might seem a definitive point to end the discussion.

To me, keeping the customer's money in that scenario seems wrong. One good thing coming out of this thread is that it raises awareness some companies actually do this.

Richard.

 

[Shasta_man]

Don't understand, Quero. Besides the suggested situation being the car was destroyed not delayed, it's the terms of the contract, not knowing in advance what they are that are being questioned here. Knowing the contract in advance is already implicit to me and has no bearing on the content. Yes, we shouldn't enter a blank contract but that's not the question. And the claim isn't for some broad protection against cancellation but pretty easily narrowed to simply whether the boat goes out and why not. The customer has a clear responsibility to be there and the seller clearly has no responsiblity for anything beyond providing the trip. While I can understand the boat owners base cost, it doesn't seem equitable to keep the entire charter fee, since a not insignificant portion is based on fuel and supplies which weren't consumed since they didn't go. Some refund/credit would be reasonable. Perhaps it's evolved to push it onto the customer to get insurance, but insurance claims are far from sure bets. Perhaps a built in insurance would be better with lower cost due to increased volume, and maybe more secure terms. I'm certain this message will have zero effect on the whole process though...