Light "Commercial" Diving

[Thalassamania]

FSTBTTMS, you have no idea what I know and what I don't. I know a fair amount about Cal and Fed OSHA diving regulations (over a decade of my life, almost full time, went into changing them) as well as a bit about being an independent contractor that I've picked up operated a profitable consulting firm for over three decades.

You, on the other hand, have clearly demonstrated repeatedly (IMHO) that you have little or no knowledge concerning any governmental regulations that you do not personally approve of, are unconcerned with the long term health effects of polluted water on your employees, and find it "manly" to teabag yourself in a soup of known carcinogens.

Now ... if you want do that to yourself, I'm concerned but basically that's your problem. When you advice others to follow your example, then I have a duty to correct your misstatements. Actually, I can't recall reading more misstatements made by a single person in a single thread in all the time I've been reading ScubaBoard.

If you were able to do anything in the way of making a case besides calling me names you'd do so. Your name calling bothers me not in the least, since all I have to do is just consider the source.

 

[DebbyDiver]

 

[mike_s]

extra butter on mine please.

 

[azchipka]

I am always impressed at the ability of a few select board guides to demonstrate to the others on scuba board how to treat others with respect and not cause little flaming wars.

 

[fstbttms]

Thalassamania, I'd have no problem with you if it weren't for the fact that in this thread:

1.- You repeatedly inferred that I am lazy. How could you possibly know if that were true or not? You couldn't. But that didn't stop you from saying it, over and over. Even though my work ethic has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion.

2.- You have contradicted virtually every statement I have made, with little regard for the veracity of my statements or whether you know anything about the subject or not.

3.- Almost all of your responses to my posts have been made with snide comments, obvious disdain and a lack of respect, right from the start.

4.- You denigrated the equipment I use in my business. You (as an experienced diver and "Board Guide") didn't suggest that perhaps I should be using gear that might offer more protection, you ridiculed my mask and suit. What the hell is that? Nice, friendly behavior from someone who is supposed to be representing the ScubaBoard.

5.- You called me a liar. When I offered my bona fides in an attempt to demonstrate my experience and professionalism in my field, you said that you didn't believe them and that I ought to be careful making untrue claims about myself, as someone might catch me on it. I don't care if you, or anyone else here, believes that my credentials are valid or not. I know they are. You, however, went out of your way to publicly state that I was making them up, when in fact, you know nothing of the sort. That shows me your true colors.

You seem to be the type that thinks he knows more than anybody else in the room. I'm sure this is why you elected to become a "Board Guide." No doubt you are an educated man with a powerful vocabulary. But that doesn't make you a good guy. I actually feel that I have been treated very shabbily by you in this thread and perhaps you'll understand when I don't kowtow to you like the others here who apparently think your s**t don't stink. I know otherwise. And I think your actions here reflect poorly on the board.

 

[Thalassamania]

Thalassamania, I'd have no problem with you if it weren't for the fact that in this thread:

1.- You repeatedly inferred that I am lazy. How could you possibly know if that were true or not? You couldn't. But that didn't stop you from saying it, over and over. Even though my work ethic has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion.

I never said nor implied that. You complete missed the point of my calculating how many dives per work day you say that you made. I was, in fact, standing back in awe at your stamina.

2.- You have contradicted virtually every statement I have made, with little regard for the veracity of my statements or whether you know anything about the subject or not.

I have never seen so many clearly errors in fact, not matters of opinion, but fact, in one place in my life. You are clearly wrong as it comes to Cal Osha and Fed Osha requirements, you have no understanding of what makes for an independent contractor. Those are facts. On the opinion side, I doubt that one other person on the board here, with any light commercial experience would back your choice. They may not require an SL like I would, they might go with a positive pressure AGA, but surely not that mask that you are using.

3.- Almost all of your responses to my posts have been made with snide comments, obvious disdain and a lack of respect, right from the start.

I don't waste snide, you're repeatedly flat wrong and unsafe and need to be called on it.

4.- You denigrated the equipment I use in my business. You (as an experienced diver and "Board Guide") didn't suggest that perhaps I should be using gear that might offer more protection, you ridiculed my mask and suit. What the hell is that? Nice, friendly behavior from someone who is supposed to be representing the ScubaBoard.

I did not denigrate or ridicule it, I stated that I would not do it. If you don't know that it is a bad choice, if you're not "man" enough to take constructive criticism, which is all it was, that's your problem, not mine.

5.- You called me a liar.

I have not called you a liar, perhaps I should have. I sincerely doubt, based on a resonable calculation, that you have logged anywhere near 20,000 working dives in somewhere between ten and fifteen years. As I pointed out that means that you had to have made in excess of five dives every working day, which I find hard to credit.

When I offered my bona fides in an attempt to demonstrate my experience and professionalism in my field, you said that you didn't believe them and that I ought to be careful making untrue claims about myself, as someone might catch me on it.

Bingo. GIve the man a cigar. But that's neither here, nor there. Your "credentials" (and mine) are meaningless, what matters is your statements of fact the quality of the information that surrounds you opinions. I find you lacking in both these areas.

I don't care if you, or anyone else here, believes that my credentials are valid or not. I know they are. You, however, went out of your way to publicly state that I was making them up, when in fact, you know nothing of the sort. That shows me your true colors.

That's one of the many failings of relying on the logical fallacy of an appeal to authority, when the credentials that you advance are not reasonable it puts everything that you have to say in question.

You seem to be the type that thinks he knows more than anybody else in the room.

I've got to tell you that I am quite often not the smartest one in the room.

I'm sure this is why you elected to become a "Board Guide."

I did not "elect," I was asked, and I accepted on the grounds that while I have to be reasonable, I don't have to pull my punches.

No doubt you are an educated man with a powerful vocabulary. But that doesn't make you a good guy. I actually feel that I have been treated very shabbily by you in this thread and perhaps you'll understand when I don't kowtow to you like the others here who apparently think your s**t don't stink. I know otherwise. And I think your actions here reflect poorly on the board.[/QUOTESome people think I'm a great guy (check my number of friends and thanks on the board), some think I'm a butt head, one more that thinks I'm a butt head really doesn't bother me, after all ... in this case what have I lost when compared to the inaccurate and dangerous advice I've identified?

 

[fstbttms]

Deny and obfuscate all you like, old-timer. It's all in the thread for anyone who cares to read it. But judging from the PMs I've been getting, plenty of forum users see you for what you are without my bringing it to light.

 

[muddiver]

Wow! Arn't we full of ourselves.

 

[Water Monkey]

WOW !
OK, I’m wearing my flame retardant suit and I have a fire extinguisher close by just in case I burst into flames. Here goes.

There are a lot of different types of diving and you can’t apply all the rules to all of them. I too have been working in small marinas for years. I always dive alone and I never wear anything but an AGA or regular open circuit gear. I have no employees or independent contractors that dive for me. As Thalassamania has stated, in a pinch independent contractors by default become your employees. I make safety decisions for myself and nobody else.

To say that it is unsafe or that I am unqualified to do essentially a six foot solo dive, I don’t think you can make much of an argument there. I’m pretty comfortable with what I do.

Regarding pollution, yea there might be more than out in the open water but with the currents we have around here the water gets exchanged every six hours. Of course there is always going to be some residual but not much. With respect to the sewage, first of all it’s against federal law to dump sewage, but we know people do. I have spoken to an individual from the health department here and she told me that in these temperature the bacteria from a sewer discharge is dead within forty minutes. That’s not to say that someone couldn’t take a dump while you’re in the water though. The city of Vancouver BC, not far from here, dumps there raw sewage right into the straights. It’s a big controversy here. Recreational divers dive around there all the time.
I don’t know about California but cleaning hulls in the water is illegal here in Washington, it’s a big fine if you get caught. I thought it was a federal law but I'm probably wrong. I’ve done it in the past but I don’t like it. In this case there is a LOT of toxins in the water. And I can tell you that cleaning one hull underwater is a workout. I’ve done two in one day but there is no way I could do three.

I dove for the EPA in November on a sunken burned out boat to plug fuel and oil leaks. They didn’t care what I wore as long as I plugged the leaks. And they were very appreciative that I did get the leaks plugged.

All that said, would I go into a shipyard and pretend like I know what I’m doing, NO WAY. It’s an entirely different type of diving. Not even close.

 

[fstbttms]

To say that it is unsafe or that I am unqualified to do essentially a six foot solo dive, I don’t think you can make much of an argument there. I’m pretty comfortable with what I do.

+1

I don’t know about California but cleaning hulls in the water is illegal here in Washington, it’s a big fine if you get caught. I thought it was a federal law but I'm probably wrong.

My understanding is that cleaning boats with ablative anti fouling has been banned in Washington. Other types of paint are OK to clean. There are no federal regulations restricting in-water hull cleaning.

I’ve done it in the past but I don’t like it. In this case there is a LOT of toxins in the water. And I can tell you that cleaning one hull underwater is a workout. I’ve done two in one day but there is no way I could do three. .

Thallsa-whatever will undoubtably say I'm lying (since he clearly knows everything about everything) but generally speaking, a full day of hull cleaning is 8 or 10 boats. This does not require superhuman endurance, just experience.

I dove for the EPA in November on a sunken burned out boat to plug fuel and oil leaks. They didn’t care what I wore as long as I plugged the leaks. And they were very appreciative that I did get the leaks plugged.

Likewise, I have done several jobs (one under contract) for the U.S. Coast Guard at thier base in Alameda. They required no special equipment, no tenders, no OHSA regs. Despite what others here may think I was implying, the OSHA regs do not apply to every commercial diving situation, or at the very least, are not enforced in every commercial diving situation. I never said they shouldn't be, just merely pointed out that in the real world, they aren't.