lift bag -reel or spool

[badgers]

this is a follow up to the rec trimix thread I had posted a while ago.
It seems TDI has a rec triox course and I have spoken with the instructor. He requires a lift bag and stop watch.
He was on his cell phone and driving at the time so I didn't ask a lot of follow up questions. He did say that he teaches deep stops at half the depth as part of the course.
Question 1)Is the intent of a lift bag for holding a specific depth at a "safety stop".
Question 2) googling around I found a debate between spool and reel for deploying the lift bag.
Question 3) which lift bag, googling seemed to find a lot of info on how many pounds of lift they have, which made me wonder if I mis-understood the use(see qestion #1)
Question 4) semi-closed or closed bag?

any help is appreciated.
Thank you for your time and have a good day

 

[DA Aquamaster]

Question 1)Is the intent of a lift bag for holding a specific depth at a "safety stop".

It makes holding depth easier but it also allows the boat/surface support folks follow you during a drifting deco.

Question 2) googling around I found a debate between spool and reel for deploying the lift bag.

Opinons vary. I prefer a spool as it is less likely to snag during deployment which in my opinion makes it more suitable for deeper stops. It is also lower profile, fits in a pocket, etc. At times though (currents, uplines etc,) a longer line is needed than is conveniently carried on a spool and a reel is the way to go, so stay flexible.

Question 3) which lift bag, googling seemed to find a lot of info on how many pounds of lift they have, which made me wonder if I mis-understood the use(see qestion #1)

50 lb bags store nice and work well for free floating deco or in light/no current situations. But a 100 lb bag is nice to have if you are on an upline in a current where the current may otherwise try to pull a smaller bag under. If it's underwater no one is going to see it on the surface.

Question 4) semi-closed or closed bag?

I use open bags and they work well as long as you send them up with a bit of tension to prevent them from inverting and dumping air on the way up. Simplicity can be a real virtue. Closed circuit bags that require an inflator hose to send up are in my opinion a pain.

But, what you probably need to be most concerned about at present is what your instructor wants. Some are pretty open minded while others are not and may specify a specific model and brand of lif tbag and reel (which coincidentally they also usually sell).

 

[Hollywoodivers]

A spool is good for doing "jumps" in a cave (connecting two permanent guidelines) a small reel with 150' feet of line with a fifty pound lift bag works good for doing deco stops as you can lock the reel at your prescribed deco stops. Also, once you learn how to use reels they will become easier to mange (tangling problems) Open bottom lift bags are easy to add air to.

 

[badgers]

any suggestions on reels and bags?
what about the 8' long tube type?
thank you for your time and have a good day

 

[DA Aquamaster]

I have a 150' "saftey" reel from Reef Scuba that I prefer to use in situations where a spool is not well suited. It is simple in design and is well made. One thing I regard as important for a reel is the ability to remove the spool on the reel without tools underwater to resolve any jam that may result from the line jumping off the edge of the reel.

Keeping a little tension on the reel as the bag goes up helps prevent this (as well as keepoing the bag upright as it goes up) as does stripping about 1/3 of the line off the reel as most come with more line than can readily be used without running the risk of a jam.

For deco bag use, I will also periodically remove all the line on land and then feed it back on the reel to ensure it will come back off in an orderly manner when the bag is going up. You want to minimize the potential for a jam as any snag or jam that occurs while the bag is on the way up will require you to let go of the reel.

On the other hand a spool is virtually jam proof and tension can be maintained with finger pressure to keep the bag from inverting. You can also "lock" the spool at a given depth using the double ender over the line and through one of the permitter holes, so it gives nothing up to a reel in that regard.

It is slightly slower to put the line back on the spool during the ascent and require slightly more coordination, but slow ascents are the name of the game anyway.

 

[badgers]

you mentioned tension settings on the reel
what about this:
http://www.leisurepro.com/Prod/Item...rtField=Price&SortDesc=False&SearchTerm=spool

 

[MikeFerrara]

I prefer spools but in situations where you want to deploy the bag from a deep wreck (people do) you might need to use a reel.

I use the Halcyon semi closed bag. I can send it on it's way and just let go of the spool. It'll just sit in front of you and spin...or you can hold onto it and let it spin in your fingers.

Some open bags have a tendancy to tip and for those you need to keep some tension onthem to keep them from dumping the air.

As has been said, the bag is prinarily a surface marker. The hanging spool or reel also serves as a visual reference which is nice. You shouldn't need to hold it to maintain depth. Usually one team member shoots the bag and the others just hang with him...not on him.

Did you call Greg?

 

[badgers]

I did call greg and I spoke with him. He told me about the wisconsin scuba board where he posted some info about his class. Our phone conversation was short since he was on his car phone and didn't have his schedule in front of him.
I did email him to see if as the instructor he had a preference as to a spool or reel, and the type of bag.
I am leaning at getting a spool as it seems straight forward, but I can't seem to find one for sale anywhere. The triox class is limited to a max of 130 feet and if my first safety stop is at 65'(half the depth) I would figure a 100' line is more then enough.
if the "bag" is for signaling above what about the 8' sausage marker?

 

[badgers]

I also assume that the 50# rating is for saltwater and freshwater will be 2.1% less

 

[Albion]

In this region and i believe in many others there is a protocol that an orange bag (i use semi closed) is used as a surface marker buoy either to control ascent or as a surface reference. Prefered method for me is with a spool as less risk of a jam. If deep then a reel is better, have now bought a Halcyon as this seems almost fool proof as regards not jamming, most others reels always seem to find a way of jamming.
In the event of an emergency, or your first bag jammed and you lost the reel / spool then a yellow bag is used (open type see here http://www.omsdive.com/lift-smb.html ). open as it is less likely to split and it can be colapsed on surface and easily sent back down with a message if need be.

YMMV