Liability release

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OldNSalty

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I am not new to diving and I have signed many releases before (and maybe I've always glossed over this). I signed up to take a Freediving course and they emailed the paperwork to bring with me. The liability form is covered with bold, extra large wording that states "
....INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE NEGLIGENCE OF THE RELEASED

PARTIES, WHETHER ACTIVE OR PASSIVE"
pasted everywhere. I am all about personal responsibility but this sounds like they are saying "even if we tell you to do something really stupid and then sit there and watch you die we are not to be blamed."

So, is this normal legal talk now or has it always been there for other courses? I am thinking I will tell them that I will only sign it after I cross out all that bolded stuff and if they have an issue....well...I guess no freediving for me. Of course, if this is not "normal" then maybe I need to find a different instructor.
 
It's written in most releases, attempting to cover @ss every way possible... but means nearly nothing in a courtroom according to a lawyer who dives and signs them regardless.

That's my uniformed two cents of how I treat the liability releases I have people sign and I sign. I do meet a perspective instructor face to face and assess if they're likely to try to drown me. Sometimes an attitude of disregard for professional duty of care comes through in the way paperwork is handled.

Looking forward to the better informed perspectives replying.

Regards,
Cameron
 
No matter what happens, it's your fault except for the negligence of the other guy. That may sound smarta$$, but it isn't. Your lawyer wants to show that the other guy was negligent in his instruction, that he didn;t tell you something, or that the pool deck was slippery and he didn't do anything about it.

What you aren't releasing is gross negligence, because, well, you can't. Gross negligence is when he actively does something that makes you get hurt. He runs you over in the boat, he gets you entangled at the bottom, he takes you deeper than you are certified. So if it's negligence, the argument could be made that you had the same opportunity that he did to avoid the injury. The pool deck was slippery, you should have worn booties. The water was wet, you should have stayed dry. That's negligence.
 
In the horse world, where people can also get hurt in any number of ways, liability releases are extremely common. It's also commonly known that if the SHTF, they mean nothing. It all comes out in court. If an operator did something obviously wrong, the liability release won't protect them.
 
If those releases were worth anything in court, we wouldn't have any lawsuits.

Some attorneys, in some situations, advise their business clients to avoid using releases, because the existence of a release implies that the business knew or anticipated an unsafe situation that they could have prevented.
 
My lawyer has presented the release as exhibit 1 in every scuba lawsuit he has defended. He has never lost a scuba case. The release speaks to the mindset of the participant at the time the release was properly executed.

As an operator, I never allowed a customer to change or modify the release. I did, however, promptly refund everyone who tried. And wouldn't let them on the boat.
 
@Wookie when your lawyer wins, does the suing party have to pay your lawyer bills? I have heard that although lawyers tells plaintiffs “You pay me nothing if you lose”, they don’t tell them that losers have to pay the WINNERS’ court and lawyer fees.
 
@Wookie when your lawyer wins, does the suing party have to pay your lawyer bills? I have heard that although lawyers tells plaintiffs “You pay me nothing if you lose”, they don’t tell them that losers have to pay the WINNERS’ court and lawyer fees.
He (David Concannon) has gone back after the plaintiffs for court costs more than once, and won I think twice. But the plaintiff is responsible for paying, not the plaintiff's counsel. I don't think he's ever collected.
 
I would listen to what Wookie says on this topic. He was in the business for a long time. I'm pretty sure he knows what he is talking about.
 
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