Lessons to be learned-Death in Palau

[detroit diver]

ibnygator once bubbled...
but hooking into a reef doesn't exactly sound like the environmentally friendly diving style that I thought all divers should adhere to. And what is the purpose of hooking in? If this was a drift dive, shouldn't you just surface when the dive ends and the boat is there?

You're spot on with this. Not only is this an environmental mess, but it is a totally bullsh*t practice. The nurse in the incident has outstanding trim and balance skills when diving. Even SHE could not release herself from the line in that current. Imagine someone with far lesser skills, no fin, and no mask trying to do the same thing.

I understand there are many areas where "reef hooking" is not allowed. I think this should be a universal rule.

 

[jepuskar]

This is not the boats fault, or the divemasters fault. I'm sure she was certified! Who knows what mistakes she made, if any, that lead to this. Seeing that she had her reg in her mouth and had plenty of air...when the mask came off.....she probably inhaled and then panicked.

The only thing that I come away with from reading this is to really think about your situation, think about the what ifs?, think about whether the dive your doing is within your limits and have the courage to speak up and talk about your issues and possibly abort the dive.

I'm not sure if I agree with longer training for O/W. There are plenty of variables that come into play with diving...common sense, heredity (more proned to panic or other mental/physical issues), peer pressure........training can help you identify these and possibly learn to deal with them in a controlled environment, but realisticly..one won't know how they deal with a problematic situation until it occurs.

That post helps me reaffirm the dangers of Scuba diving...it is humbling. I have done about 70 uneventful dives, but on most dives I always think of the what if's.

It is a shame this happened, but that is what we are dealing with in this sport/hobby/profession!

 

[O-ring]

Solo diving, diving WAY beyond one's abilities, and using the BS reef hooking practice instead of being able to hold one's stops with no reference point in current - i.e. drift deco/safety stop.

This should have been an easy fix - current too strong, shoot bag and drift, complete stops while drifting. Piece of cake for anyone with the skills that SHOULD have been required for doing this type of diving.

BS reef hooking scenario (IMHO, just like a jon line in a really stiff current) - realize there are problems and you need to get to the surface, current too strong for you to unclip, cut line and perform procedures outlined in above paragraph.

Like MikeF said, people need to wake the **** up and realize that current recreational training is nowhere near enough training and is not the correct type of training to do this type of dive. And it was what, 40'? I hope the divers weren't tragically misled to think this was a typical shallow warm water reef dive.

 

[detroit diver]

jepuskar once bubbled...
This is not the boats fault, or the divemasters fault. I'm sure she was certified! Who knows what mistakes she made, if any, that lead to this. Seeing that she had her reg in her mouth and had plenty of air...when the mask came off.....she probably inhaled and then panicked.

The only thing that I come away with from reading this is to really think about your situation, think about the what ifs?, think about whether the dive your doing is within your limits and have the courage to speak up and talk about your issues and possibly abort the dive.

I'm not sure if I agree with longer training for O/W. There are plenty of variables that come into play with diving...common sense, heredity (more proned to panic or other mental/physical issues), peer pressure........training can help you identify these and possibly learn to deal with them in a controlled environment, but realisticly..one won't know how they deal with a problematic situation until it occurs.

That post helps me reaffirm the dangers of Scuba diving...it is humbling. I have done about 70 uneventful dives, but on most dives I always think of the what if's.

It is a shame this happened, but that is what we are dealing with in this sport/hobby/profession!

I think there's enough fault to go around here, including the boat, and maybe the DM. You can add the training agencies to this list also along with her buddy (which unfortunately in this case was her husband).

Reef hooking newbie divers in a ripping current? You can't tell me that that dive op didn't know the risks here-they provided this stupid hook setup because of the current in the first place. And if the current was much stronger than anticipated, the DM should have called the dive.

Buddy? What buddy? Here's a perfect situation where someone would be alive today with an attentive buddy. There is no excuse for not hammering this into divers in OW classes instead of just glossing over it.

Proper training, and more of it may have helped calm this diver down and gotten her out of this situation. If you practice skills over and over again, you get comfortable in dealing with situations when they happen.

 

[O-ring]

Reef hooking newbie divers in a ripping current? You can't tell me that that dive op didn't know the risks here-they provided this stupid hook setup because of the current in the first place. And if the current was much stronger than anticipated, the DM should have called the dive.

Buddy? What buddy? Here's a perfect situation where someone would be alive today with an attentive buddy. There is no excuse for not hammering this into divers in OW classes instead of just glossing over it.

This dive. for this particular diver, was BS...she shouldn't have been there in the first place.

I agree she totally would have survived this with a good buddy. It was at 40', right? Also, I assume this (it BETTER have been) was a non-decompression dive? Worst case scenario, I see her in this state as the stuff hits the fan and I reach over and cut that damn reef hook line...take it from there.

 

[jepuskar]

If I was her hubby, I probably would sue...just because I would want the money.

Deep down though, my feelings are....it was her call to go diving. Where is Northeastwrecks at..maybe he can shed some light on this matter. What kind of liability would the divemaster or PH's have?

You dive at your own risk! I'm sure before getting down to 40 feet a couple bad thoughts ran thru her head.....maybe I should abort, nahh, I'm going to go a little deeper and see what happens...blah blah blah. It was an unfortunate incident, but she was a certified diver. I wonder how much experience she had, how many dives, etc.

When dealing with the ocean we all know things can change in an instant...its a constant variable (oxymoron??)

Whats the liability here? The captain and divemaster didn't tell us there was going to be current in the ocean? Doesn't seem like a strong case. I believe they had all the proper rescue equipment on board...now if they didn't, then I can see some liability issues.

 

[ericfine50]

Liability could be taking a group of divers to a site that was above some of the divers ablility or not explaining the way to drift dive. Knowing you will be in a remote location and not having enough medical supplies on hand.

Just a few thoughts

Eric

 

[jepuskar]

Does the post mention anything about the dive briefing? I couldn't find anything. Maybe the divemaster told all the divers the proper procedures to follow for drift diving, maybe he told them there was a good chance for strong current, maybe our victim decided to dive anyway after hearing all of this.

Or maybe nothing was said about the conditions of the water..who knows, can we find out?

 

[MikeFerrara]

Not all divers hang out on this board. IMO, divers are not taught how to evaluate a dive or for that matter a boat and crew. We (as an industry) tell them that diving is safe. We show them statistics like comparing dive injury rates to those of bowling to prove it. We even talk them into taking their 10 year olds with them. They leave it to the resort or diveboat crew to decide what an appropriate dive is. If the boat stops they WILL jump off and never give it a thought.

They get their card head off to the Caribbean and head streight to 100 ft and sometimes in a wreck or coral cave. When I express disapproval they say things like "I didn't have a problem". I respond by telling them that it's a good thing. The boat crews will throw any one into the water for a buck and shops will give any one a card for a buck. Most recreational dives are pretty safe so most even survive the severe screwups they make on every dive. Try that crap in the wrong place at the wrong time though and you become very wise for the last few seconds of your life.

Now maybe I'm the one who doesn't know anything but I'm not going to tie myself to anything. I carry a knife so I can get untied should I end up that way on accident. I think a fair number of divers have trouble with that dive it's just that most live. The entire arrangement is idiotic, IMO.

Imagine paying someone to hand you that dive plan. If somebody didn't die it would be flat out funny for someone to tie in while the current strips them of all their belongings.

 

[snuggle]

i have to agree with jepuskar on this one..this was a tragic thing that happened but as he said it was her call to make..and she was certified although with how many dives under her belt we dont know..i read some of the other posts on this regarding well if people practiced what they are taught then that would make them better to handle the situation..this i dont agree with at all..sure it may help to some degree but remember that when practicing we are doing it relaxed because their isnt a situation and we tend to have no problems doing the drills but under pressure the outcome is different because we are fighting the situation to begin with and not to mention when the fear factor is added to the equation and time factors as well then its a whole new ballgame.so please folks everyone reacts different in the same situation..some can handle it very well while others can not..you can practice to your hearts content but it never really prepares you mentally when something goes terribly wrong..and lets face it fear makes the mind do some wrong things at the wrong time..i guess i have talked too long already..just my thoughts..