Lesson Learned. Ways to avoid this in the future?

[ScubaSteve1962]

I may have jumped the gun about not diving with him again, but; for me, the following quotes from the OP about his "dive buddy" would have sealed the deal for me on the first dive. My experience has been folks like that don't learn except by the hard way.

"...He then proceeded to argue with me about how he didn't need all that stuff on a dive that involved a pretty long surface swim, under a kelp forest canopy where vis is about 10 ft on a good day, and in a kelp forest that used to allow fishing until 2 months ago...

...asked him what happened and here is the dialog
Him "I didn't even know we were allowed to dive here"
"Yup you are"
"Like I didn't know you are allowed to walk out into the ocean and dive, I've only been off a boat. I've never even dove in CA before. I've never done a shore dive before."
"Well you need to go to Catalina or Redondo and get some experience before coming out here."

He made excuses all the way up the hill till we got to the car".

That's why I would only do shallow safe dives with him, until I had a good feel for diving with him. Unless I'm on a boat with an insta-buddy where I know I can become a solo diver really quick, I wouldn't have went out on that type of dive with this guy anyway for the first dive. The OP assumed because he had so many dives and certs that he would be okay, he never asked if had ever did any shore dives, or what conditions had been diving in. This may have been an eye opener for both. If you notice the OP said he was a new diver, and most new divers learn from their experiences also, like what kind of questions to ask the next person.

 

[eelnoraa]

I think you made a good call skipping the dive. I know you were frustrated, but if you take one step back, your buddy is just an inexperience diver, that's it. Don't be too harsh on newbies. The fact he has rescue diver and still inexperience has lots to do with the policy of the current scuba agency. Chances are he should NOT be certified but he did. I don't think the false is on him. Seriously. And there is nothing you didn't avoid already. You call the dive before it gets to a more stressful situation.

Now, here is what I don't necessary agree with you respectfully. First, without a knife, snorkel and light. Most people I dive with, myself included, don't use snokle. Knife and light are very nice to have, but again, PADI don't even requireq light unless it is a night dive. I won't choose to dive or not dive with someone based on that. And regulator, if he can't afford it he can't afford it. Who said poor man can't be a diver. I really can't judge a diver based on he/she own or not own his/her regulator.

As for not being able to setup his equipment, I do see a problem there, but I also understand the situation. Many warm water certified divers I know, they know nothing about setting up gears. All things were setup, waiting for them on the boat when they do the class. So again, probably not the false of the divers, but scuba agencies/shops/instructors to allow people to be certified without know how to setup their equipment.

I was once like the buddy of yours. Everyone start somwhere. At the end, it is about the attitude of the newbies. As long as he doesn't show the "I know it all", which doesn't sound like it in your post.

As for weight check, 4lb and 8lb in 7mm wetsuit?? is this fresh water or salt water?

 

[hawk44]

Thank you guys for your feedback. I am very much a newbie my self. I made the mistake of not asking him the right questions. I was led on about his experience and I should defiantly ask more next time. I am going to be ditching the snorkel as well next time. Just as easy to swim on my back and less of an entanglement hazard as pointed out (THANK YOU).

 

[rx7diver]

... I am going to be ditching the snorkel as well next time. Just as easy to swim on my back and less of an entanglement hazard as pointed out (THANK YOU).

Please think seriously about this! There are many of us, myself included, who believe a snorkel is absolutely essential for usual open water rec dives.

Safe Diving,

rx7diver

 

[Scuba_Noob]

Great decision in calling the dive! I know that when I was starting out (not long ago), it was difficult for me to call a dive, because I just wanted to dive all the time.

Just because a person has PADI Rescue and a certain amount of dives doesn't necessarily mean he or she is a good diver. Generally, those things are correlated with being an adequate diver, but there are exceptions. That's one of the reasons why I go through a general set of questions with new buddies (cert, # dives, last dive, where). Although it makes me seem a little paranoid (which I am based on past experiences), it only takes 5-10 minutes to go over dive plan, signals, emergency info, and diving/certification history - and that could save any communications confusion.

And he wasn't even awake when you arrived! That's just inconsiderate and unprepared. I've had a couple of 'buddies' who cancelled on me at the last minute multiple times for stupid reasons (e.g., sleeping in, hung over, locked gear in someone else's house, can't find all their gear) - I just don't dive with them anymore. Plenty of other competent divers out there.

 

[ScubaSteve1962]

I am a new diver but have been around water my entire life (17 years old) I had gotten an opportunity to do research in the kelp forest of southern California and so I jumped at the opportunity. This study is supposed to start the 1st week of July and run once a month for a year. I had been talking to one of my friends from school about helping me out with this and doing this study together.

Him not having basic gear would have had me call it. And the comment about never having been in cold water. But the kicker would have been his not following the plan. If his mom has to get him up he is not responsible enough to be diving with me after we agreed on the plan.

The way to avoid this in the future? Don't dive with this guy again. From the sound of it, the only lessons he has left to learn are the hard ones.

Wow! You made a good decision. That guy needs a nice easy beach entry. If you missed your time to dive slack tide and the waves are as bad as you say, imagine trying to get this guy back on shore after the dive! Diving rocky entries while timing for lull sets needs experience... getting in is the easy part. Getting out will be the hard part. He clearly wasn't ready. If a diver has 100's of dives in warm water, but has never done a timed rocky entry point/exit point, he's still a newbie with that skill set.

I suppose calling the dive while you were in the water and he was wide-eyed on the shore was a bit late, but that was good decision. Imagine him in the water and you're instructing him on how to get out. I've taken people out to similar dive sites (rocky timed entries). We talk and go over entry and exits and what happens if something goes wrong. If the diver is not comfortable, we find a new site. Yeah, lots of red flags with your buddy, but esp when his "verbal experience" didn't seem to match his "equipment".

Great decision in calling the dive! I know that when I was starting out (not long ago), it was difficult for me to call a dive, because I just wanted to dive all the time.

Just because a person has PADI Rescue and a certain amount of dives doesn't necessarily mean he or she is a good diver. Generally, those things are correlated with being an adequate diver, but there are exceptions. That's one of the reasons why I go through a general set of questions with new buddies (cert, # dives, last dive, where). Although it makes me seem a little paranoid (which I am based on past experiences), it only takes 5-10 minutes to go over dive plan, signals, emergency info, and diving/certification history - and that could save any communications confusion.

And he wasn't even awake when you arrived! That's just inconsiderate and unprepared. I've had a couple of 'buddies' who cancelled on me at the last minute multiple times for stupid reasons (e.g., sleeping in, hung over, locked gear in someone else's house, can't find all their gear) - I just don't dive with them anymore. Plenty of other competent divers out there.

Did anyone pay any attention to the age of these 2 divers?? 17 years old, he did a good job, better than some older divers I've been with. and as far as his buddy how many of us were very responsible at that age? That's why I wasn't trying to beat up on him with my previous post just give him some things to think about in the future, and said he should dive with his buddy more, because they still have alot to learn about diving and life.

 

[Edward3c]

Please think seriously about this! There are many of us, myself included, who believe a snorkel is absolutely essential for usual open water rec dives.

Safe Diving,

rx7diver

After 30+ years diving I still dive with a snorkel - and its attached to my mask.

The surface is a dangerous place.

We all live and learn.

 

[DivemasterDennis]

Thank you guys for your feedback. I am very much a newbie my self. I made the mistake of not asking him the right questions. I was led on about his experience and I should defiantly ask more next time. I am going to be ditching the snorkel as well next time. Just as easy to swim on my back and less of an entanglement hazard as pointed out (THANK YOU).

It is critical when going off on a dive with another diver where you are the whole team and support that there be a very through discussion of experience levels, competence levels, conditions, dive profile timing for entry and exit (as in this case the tide was an issue), and etc. Observation of another diver's gear and comfort level in setting it up tells a lot about them. A certification level tell you only a little about a diver. I think the lesson here is to assume nothing, ask about everything, and do let politeness lead to oversight. Diving off on our own is our favorite kind of diving. It is serious fun. And by that I mean a lot of fun, but you have to take it seriously.
DivemasterDennis

 

[Scuba_Noob]

Did anyone pay any attention to the age of these 2 divers?? 17 years old, he did a good job, better than some older divers I've been with. and as far as his buddy how many of us were very responsible at that age? That's why I wasn't trying to beat up on him with my previous post just give him some things to think about in the future, and said he should dive with his buddy more, because they still have alot to learn about diving and life.

Most of the posts are complimenting the original poster. He did an excellent job and made a wiser choice than many other divers would. Some people are just giving him suggestions on how to avoid future issues like this. Nobody is beating up on him.

Hawk44 didn't mention the age of the other diver, but regardless of age, with his buddy's asserted experience in scuba diving, one expects his buddy to be safe, decently prepared, and somewhat competent. At the very least, be considerate of other people's time by being on time, awake, and prepared.

 

[ScubaSteve1962]

Most of the posts are complimenting the original poster. He did an excellent job and made a wiser choice than many other divers would. Some people are just giving him suggestions on how to avoid future issues like this. Nobody is beating up on him.

Hawk44 didn't mention the age of the other diver, but regardless of age, with his buddy's asserted experience in scuba diving, one expects his buddy to be safe, decently prepared, and somewhat competent. At the very least, be considerate of other people's time by being on time, awake, and prepared.

If you read the op he said he was seventeen, and it was a friend from school, so I would assume high school IE around the same age, the age post wasn't in reference to the way he reacted, it was to the posts of never dive with again, his mother had to wake him so he's not responsible, like most of us were very responsible at that age. He should have his own equipment, he only dives on vacation. his words didn't seem to match his equipment, what would you expect from a 16 to 19 year old?? Think of the things that we did at that age and how silly we were then.