Lesson Learned - In Pool Session

[simbrooks]

Doing well entitled you to a FREE advanced course after you completely boffed the switch equipment exercise.

In PADI, while they don't have such an IMO absurd skill, if you fail ONE skill, you fail the course.

Sounds like NAUI has become desperate if they have to give away certifications.

Try again - the standards dont require this skill to be completed for either NAUI or PADI at this level, its an additional thing that NAUI instructors can add in. With PADI and NAUI you dont fail for not doing a skill, you repeat to the instructor's satisfaction that you can do it (some poorer instructors that would be once, better ones might make you do it a few times over the checkout dives) - the PADI course is no better than the NAUI one. The option of free courses is probably at the cost/liberty of the LDS to give out, of course they might be putting customer service in to make sure they get the gear sales - but you never know how pro-active they are, this skill is an example of being a little too good possibly for OW training. Personally i am mildly hesitant of doing it for DM training, but i know i can do it (of course there it is one set of gear between you and buddy breathing rather than just plainly swapping out). Not sure there are grounds here to string up this guy, the skill is a tough one for people going through basic training, and of course the PADI/NAUI/whoever thing is a bit old.

 

[CBulla]

Doing well entitled you to a FREE advanced course after you completely boffed the switch equipment exercise.

In PADI, while they don't have such an IMO absurd skill, if you fail ONE skill, you fail the course.

Sounds like NAUI has become desperate if they have to give away certifications.

Ron

Actually, that would be a local shop or instructor decision. I don't see anything wrong with it.

 

[The Chairman]

Hey Ron,

take a chill pill... obviously the SHOP gave the class away as a method of promoting their class. Unlike PADI, NAUI instructors are allowed to "toughen" a class as they see fit. It could be the local conditions, or that the instructor feels that a student or class needs more confidence. It's the main reason I became a NAUI instructor even though I was a PADI divemaster. NAUI also includes such "absurd" requirements as being able to handle a paniced diver on the surface as well as bringing an unconscious diver from depth. No other agency does, but what kind of a buddy are you, if you can't provide some assistance? Just because you don't understand the NEED or RELEVANCY of a skill does not make the skill arcane or absurd.

Hey everybody,

Removing and replacing one's BC underwater is REQUIRED by all agencies. Some require it on the surface as well. The excersize as described was no more than that, only you did it with your buddy!

Dive Master level training requires BUDDY BREATHING which mitigates the excersize considerably. What was described here was just a way to make things FUN! I incorporate all sorts of FUN GAMES in my classes as well. Things like "Seahorse Races", swimming through hoops, slow races etc all add to the enjoyment of the class. It's even better when things go "south" as the students learn problem solving at the same time.

It's not unusual after the more formal pool sessions have been accomplished to have this kind of Olympics just to instill confidence and to burn the skills into the student's brain.

 

[The Chairman]

Moderator's note...

Hey SimBrooks... I will make sure that YOUR gear exchange will be pure hell... PURE HELL I TELL YOU! Bwahahahaha! Bwahahahaha! (<= Dr. Evil's laugh- can you see the pinky?)

 

[Mako Mark]

Is there some point to a swap, aside from being an exercise?

Terry

In tha PADI system at divemaster level, it is seen as a complex set of problem solving oportunities, while sharing air from one regulator. It is designed to enable the instuructor to evaluate the candidates problem solving ability. It is sometimes wrongly referred to as the stress test. It is important to realise that it is not designed to induce stress, but to evaluate it.

Apart from evaluating a candidates complex problem solving ability and comfort levels UW, it has not practical use in modern recreational diving.

 

[Mako Mark]

Moderator's note...

Hey SimBrooks... I will make sure that YOUR gear exchange will be pure hell... PURE HELL I TELL YOU! Bwahahahaha! Bwahahahaha! (<= Dr. Evil's laugh- can you see the pinky?)

Have you told him about the UW wetsuit exchange yet??

 

[RonFrank]

Actually, that would be a local shop or instructor decision. I don't see anything wrong with it.

I agree there is nothing wrong with it, nor do I think that failing a skill that is not required for OW is horrible, nor was I implying that the original poster was not a good student.

My point was that telling someone they *won* some free classes because they did well seems to be a bit of marketing hype, especially as the *student* had not even passed OW at that time. Seems like it would be better to *award* the student AFTER they have completed the training.

Ron

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

My point was that telling someone they *won* some free classes because they did well seems to be a bit of marketing hype, especially as the *student* had not even passed OW at that time. Seems like it would be better to *award* the student AFTER they have completed the training.

Ron

But your statement suggested that you don't understand the difference between what an agency requires for training, and what a shop chooses to do for promotional purposes.

To be honest, as a NAUI instructor I found your comments to be rather uninformed ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[simbrooks]

In tha PADI system at divemaster level, it is seen as a complex set of problem solving oportunities, while sharing air from one regulator. It is designed to enable the instuructor to evaluate the candidates problem solving ability. It is sometimes wrongly referred to as the stress test. It is important to realise that it is not designed to induce stress, but to evaluate it.

Apart from evaluating a candidates complex problem solving ability and comfort levels UW, it has not practical use in modern recreational diving.

How can you evaluate stress levels if you dont put someone in a potentially stressful situation - no-one can say being pretty much unable to see, relying on touch to buddy breath, not being able to completely be in charge of your buoyancy (ie when the other person has the weights and BC on) and such is not a little stressful. Just a point of order regarding woolly PR talk saying it isnt that, but you are evaluating it

Have you told him about the UW wetsuit exchange yet??

Pete and i arent quite the same body shapes and of course i pee in my wetsuit so it'd be icky, but i dont in my DS - but you arent getting me changing that out UW either I look forward to the kit change UW as a challenge, doesnt mean its not reasonable to have a healthy concern/stress about it.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Getting back to the original post, I don't think this is something I'd want to do during an OW class ... but if done properly I don't see it as "harrassment" training either. The only real problem I'd have with what was described is that an instructor (or AI) should have been hovering over the buddy team while they did the gear exchange to provide assistance if there were equipment difficulties and/or to prevent runaway ascents. Given the proper safety precautions, I see value in task-loading the divers ... I often read in here that students are capable of learning far more than most instructors are willing to teach. This appears to be an instructor who practices that belief ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)