Leisure Pro now an authorized Zeagle dealer?

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While it might benefit me (I am still trying to figure out how) to have MAP prices imposed by the manufacturers, it completely fails any logical test of common sense and business model development.

In my online store, the price I advertise is the only price a new customer knows. To the average consumer, they assume that the advertised price is the price. I someone else advertises another lower price, they will simply choose that other retailer. Most MAP price programs PREVENT the use of coded language that lets a customer know they will actually sell for a lower price than the one advertised. In the scuba industry, every MAP price program I know prohibits "automatic" discounts or prohibits discount codes that lower the price in the shopping cart.

The concept of using MAP prices to level the playing field for all dealers is a concept only loved by the retailers who ALREADY have the largest market share. If a smaller retailer, or a retailer who is trying to grow market share can't advertise the REAL price they are willing to offer, how in the world can the increase market share? How can they balance inventory? How can they expand customer count?

MAP price programs in the scuba industry were originally designed to "protect" the smallest dealers. With the growth of some of the larger brick and mortar and online retailers, it has morphed into a program that simply protects the market share of these stores. I am a dealer just like every other dealer. Now, it is clear that in the scuba industry, I am not one of the large ones. Why is it that the larger scuba online retailers never complain about MAP prices. In fact, just a couple of stores (about5 of them) do 100% of the MAP enforcement for the scuba companies. All I would need to do this morning is lower the price of one item below the MAP price and the phone calls would start coming.

MAP pricing, despite the benefit offered to certain segments of a market, are an overall bad idea. In the long term, MAP pricing hurts everyone.

Phil Ellis
 
But MAP is just the "minimum ADVERTISED price", not necessarily the actual price. Heck, when we bought my Zena, my Envoy Regs, my husband's Ranger LTD, and his Flathead/Envoy combo we simply called ScubaToys and asked for their best price...it wasn't anywhere close to MAP.

Read the above post by Scott. he said that no one was happier to see LP as an Authorized Zeagle dealer than Larry at Scubatoys. Why? because he didn't want to have to sell for below MAP. He wants as much profit as he can get. Just like any other store. But that's just business. You can't blame someone for wanting to be profitable.

Yes any store with any sense will come off MAP if you ask, but I think it's clear they don't want to come down to LP grey market prices.


The irony of the flow of grey market goods to LP is that quite a bit of the equipment has serial numbers that could be tracked by the manufacturer IF they wanted to know where it was coming from.

They know exactly where its coming from. Most of the manufacturers ship it directly (or in-directly) to LP. It might not have LP on the invoice name (but a shadow company name), but I can guarentee they know where it's going.....



Most MAP price programs PREVENT the use of coded language that lets a customer know they will actually sell for a lower price than the one advertised. In the scuba industry, every MAP price program I know prohibits "automatic" discounts or prohibits discount codes that lower the price in the shopping cart.

If that was equally enforced, then why does some retailers such as Scubatoys advertise (at least on forums) that they will give you 10% off the order and manufacturers not equally enforce it? I only reference scubatoys because they are a big enough retailer that it would be harder for a manufacturer to "bully" them. Manufacturers don't seem to enforce MAP when scuba.com advertises lower than MAP prices either. (Note: I'm not trying to pick on ST, but only reference them as they are well known for the 10% off program. It definately works as it generates them lots of business. Other stores have their way of selling cheaper below MAP. For example, Divers Direct does subscription emails of lower prices).



Why is it that the larger scuba online retailers never complain about MAP prices. In fact, just a couple of stores (about5 of them) do 100% of the MAP enforcement for the scuba companies. All I would need to do this morning is lower the price of one item below the MAP price and the phone calls would start coming.

That reminds me of a thread on DecoStop that had a reference link to Scuba.com where they had a list of all the MAP violators that they sent out to manufacturers. yet they have been know to violate MAP themselves. go figure.
 
Read the above post by Scott. he said that no one was happier to see LP as an Authorized Zeagle dealer than Larry at Scubatoys. Why? because he didn't want to have to sell for below MAP. He wants as much profit as he can get. Just like any other store. But that's just business. You can't blame someone for wanting to be profitable.

The customer lost.

Thanks Zeagle
 
The customer lost.

Thanks Zeagle




While you might be partially right.... I don't think think that's the whole story.


Scott makes himself available here to answer questions about gear and also has gone beyond that to answer business questions. I don't see anyone from Aqualung on here doing that when customers have business questions. So I think it's good to have Scott on here.

In the end though you're right, the customer will have to pay more. I doubt that if I called up Scubatoys or another dealer and asked for the "old LP price" that I would be told they couldn't do that anymore. Remember Larry was one of the ones that wanted the LP grey market prices gone.

this whole MAP thing is so outdated. It was meant to protect the "little dealers" from the "big dealers" dropping prices based on getting more sales volume, but now the "big dealers" use it so that others can't compete with them. that is where the customer looses.....


EDIT: Scott, someone deleted your last post while I replied on this one... ?
 
Scott makes himself available here to answer questions about gear and also has gone beyond that to answer business questions.

EDIT: Scott, someone deleted your last post while I replied on this one... ?

I deleted it, Mike. Getting involved in a business discussion on here was a mistake. That is not what these forums are for.

The original question was "Is LP an authorized Zeagle dealer?"

The answer is yes.

All of the other stuff can be rehashed for the 10,000th time out in the general discussion areas.
 
So, if LP and ST are both authorized Zeagle dealers, does that mean that stuff I buy from them will be servicable by my LDS which is also an authorized Zeagle dealer?

I ask specifically because LP and ST both have the Escape for less that $340, and my LDS said that they can't go below $445 or they would be in jeapordy of losing their Authorized Dealer status. I'm all for supporting my LDS, but at over a $100 difference I don't see why I would not by from LP or ST if the warranty and service would be applicable from my local Authorized Dealer.
 
Any LDS that tells you a "line" like that is just trying to justify making you pay full price for something.....

If that was true about looking their "authorized dealer status", then Zeagle would have kicked out other vendors you reference like Scubatoys a long time ago for selling it cheaper.

Ask them to be competitive or vote with your wallet.


Will your LDS service it? Well they should, since they are an authorized dealer. But I imagine if they are going to lie to you about the above then they'll prob give you crap about servicing it also.
 
The problem for the little shop such as mine, is that a major online retailer's such as LP and ST buy and sell in such bulk numbers that they get their prices down well below mine, so their profit is still acceptable. In the economy such as today's there will be a time that they will sink the little shop like mine! Hope LP, ST, and others of the like figure out a way to sell air, because if I can't make enough to pay my personal bills plus the shop's I'll be closing down and air will go with me. I mean, there's no reason why we all can't make some money, is there? I don't have a problem with online retailers making a larger profit than me, but I need to make enough to survive, and definately make it hard!!!!

Joe
Centrtal Oregon Tech Divers
 
It's kinda like they the steak and potatoes, and the little shop like mine gets the scraps. While they get fat, we get thin and loose our shorts.
Joe
 
The problem for the little shop such as mine, is that a major online retailer's such as LP and ST buy and sell in such bulk numbers that they get their prices down well below mine, so their profit is still acceptable. In the economy such as today's there will be a time that they will sink the little shop like mine! Hope LP, ST, and others of the like figure out a way to sell air, because if I can't make enough to pay my personal bills plus the shop's I'll be closing down and air will go with me. I mean, there's no reason why we all can't make some money, is there? I don't have a problem with online retailers making a larger profit than me, but I need to make enough to survive, and definately make it hard!!!!

Joe
Centrtal Oregon Tech Divers

The air scare may not be too effective. When the last source of air closes, divers who want to continue diving locally will have to ban together and invest in a compressor. I'll bet I know where they might get one pretty cheap. I'm pretty confident that if the area had enough divers to support one or more LDSs, then there will be enough to support an non-profit club if some a small group can get it organized.

So, the survival of your business is basically on your shoulders. What is your plan to compete with the big guys on the internet?

I wish you the best of luck.
 

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