Leak Sentinel Leak Detector

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The camera is not air tight. So air and therefore water vapor is not "trapped" in the camera. At least you finally are seeing the error in your thinking that condensation can not form on the port of an aluminum housing. UH-oh, does that mean your IQ is deacreasing? :)
 
The WVTR of a plastic circuit board on a camera will transfer about .5 grams over 24 hours. Insignificant amount ! The amount of water vapor removed from the contents of the housing (including the camera) overwhelm this by an order of magnitude. So a vacuum of 5 inches of Hg will decrease condensation, as well as seat an actively sealing cylinder o-ring.
 
I see that now it does?
And how many grams of vapor are in one litre of air?

---------- Post added April 4th, 2014 at 05:37 PM ----------

If one cubic meter holds say 10 grams at 20C one litre would only hold 0.01 grams. Hence 0.5 grams or even 0.1 grabs is 10 times
 
Over 24 hours. A plastic circuit board is hardly a sponge, and can not liberate any absorbed water at a rate that would peove meaningful.

So aluminum ports CAN get condensation on their ports
and placing a vacuum in the housing will decrease the incidence of condensation.

You are so insecure about being found wrong that your proclivity for steadfastly holding on to wrongheaded notions is profound. You are grasping at straws.
 
Are you not able to read the previous? An order of magnitude or more difference. Silica bags in fact are made of silicium that makes semiconductors
 
I am perfectly able to read, and able to determine when someone is posting nonsense.

Listen, Interceptor, all comments about my IQ and my retaliatory cajoling aside, I don't care what you do or don't believe, but it really is too bad that you can not admit (or is it admit to yourself?) when you are wrong. You will convolute esoterica trying escape saying you made a mistake. Why this is sad is that you had posted a fair bit of information which U/W photographers could certainly have found useful. I really liked the info. that you posted about buoyancy arms. And your pool analysis of systems seemed informative. This is why I have tried to see if you were able to come to grips with the fact you were mistaken about the O-rings and vacuum and saying so. But if we can't trust you to admit when you have made an error, we can't take at face value anything you put out there, and that is an unfortunate thing. :peace2:
 
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The reason why I have been going on about this because I have personally experienced fogging in a housing after following all supposed recommendations and I couldn't work out out of any reasonable theory why it did fog. The thing would happen regularly with my plastic housing (all fogging at the port) but not with aluminium housing ( in the same trip same boat )
Having ran out of possible options to explain the phenomena I have started looking for more esoteric explanations. I can't explain to myself why two housing prepared in the same room would behave differently. But actually they didn't the aluminium housing also had much minor fogging on the walls not on the port nowhere near the gopro in plastic housing that in water would literally be a cloud after 30'. In all cases the water temperature was higher than the room so definitely it's not a dew point. Any idea. This happens regularly I have no other explanation than the fact that the camera accumulate some moisture in the time they are outside the housing. Any idea welcome
 
Lets really try to figure out what is going on here. First of all, I am assuming we are talking only about fogging in the interior of the housings, not the exterior, which gets washed off. When the acrylic housing was fogging a lot more than the aluminum, were you going from air conditioning to the water? Were you SEALING the housings before leaving the air conditioned room? Were you ever taking your "naked" camera outside the cool/dry room? If I ever take my camera outside "naked" and then bring it inside without letting it "air out" in dry air with the lens off for a few hours, I can have a hell of a time with fogging inside the housing!!! Barring that, plastic housings will have more problems coming from a cold environment if they get opened outside even briefly or have a camera filled with humid air inserted. This is because the aluminum conducts heat MUCH better, so the interior wall of the housing reaches a temperature above the dew point temperature faster when exposed to the warm outside air, getting rid of condensation conditions. Whereas the wall of a cold acrylic housing stays cold for a LONG time. I had an Ikelite housing that I had to leave in the garage overnight if I was going to be opening it at the beach , because here in the humid Florida heat , it would fog for HOURS once I opened it if it was in the A/C overnight. This insulating property also keeps the air from getting warm in the housing, and is why the dome fogs more with the acrylic housing.

If you are starting with an aluminum and acrylic housing sitting open, outside in the nice warm humid air, and close them then plunge them into ice water, they will both eventually form condensation, the speed will really depend on the thermal conductivity of each part of the housing (in other words, as each part of the housing wall dips below the dew point temperature, it will start to fog). I would think that since aluminum is so conductive, that part of the housing would start to fog first (before the port). Where condensation forms first on the acrylic housing it would really depend on the thickness and thermal properties of the housing and port. If the ports of the aluminum and acrylic housings are the same in THIS circumstance, the acrylic housing PORT would not fog faster (unless it was VERY thin).

Between glass and acrylic ports, glass is much more thermally conductive. So coming from a cold room with bad dehumidification, or walking outside with the housing open, then glass will be better because it will warm up in the air faster. If throwing two warm humid ports in the cold water, both will eventually fog, but the glass will fog faster.

Really the easiest and only way to think about this is, condensate ONLY forms when air is brought below it's dew point temperature, which is determined by the partial pressure of the water vapor (Relative Humidity)in that quantity of air.This can occur when the air contacts a cooler surface, in which case the condensate will form on the surface.
(I really promise this is true cross my heart as a hyperbaric specialist and anesthesiologist - gas pressures are how I make my living, check my profile).

Now if you have
1.a really hot video camera warming the interior (keeping the interior surface above dew point temperature of the air), or
2.moisture munchers or a vacuum decreasing the partial pressure of water vapor in the housing (decreasing the dew point temperature of the air)
or a combination of the above, it will help prevent condensation.

Also, the reason why any water which might be trapped in moisture absorbent packs and absorbent plastics in the circuit boards you mentioned won't significantly contribute to increasing the partial pressure of water vapor in the vacuumed housing is twofold. 1. the material is hydrophilic by design, and is very slow to give up the absorbed water. 2. In the liquid form of water that could be drawn from these materials is somewhat trapped in the liquid form until you reach the activation energy to effect a phase shift from liquid to vapor (in layman's terms, evaporation is slow to happen in a cool environment). This is why you could put a paper cup full of water in your housing and it would not immediately fog, even though there are more than enough total water molecules in the housing to saturate even the hottest air.

The bottom line is if you are in a steady state with a cool/dry camera, and put it into a cool/dry housing then seal it, putting it in water warmer than the room can not make it fog unless the housing is leaking. Did you ever see a clear plastic housing after it springs a tiny leak at depth? If so, you might have noticed that if fills with condensation even if there is a tiny bit of water inside. That is because of the increased pressure causing the partial pressure of water to soar (opposite of the vacuum).

I think the most likely scenarios for your fogging issues you describe is that

1.the camera was brought to a higher humidity area (maybe the boat's salon?), in the hours preceding being placed in the housing. My wife had this problem with her Gopro because she was charging the batteries in the salon of a liveaboard which was very humid, then bringing the Gopro to the air conditioned cabin, where she was sealing it in the housing. It would fog up every time.

or

2.the housing was somehow opened partially after leaving the cool/dry
room.

Please let me know if this helps

Peace, Doug
 
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None of the two. But something else just came into my mind now. We have since stopped preparing the cameras in the cabin and we do it in a camera area that in the last trips had no air cond but had fans and I would use compressed air to dry the housing before opening. Is it possible that when the housing was opened in the ac cabin some parts of the camera like the battery compartment were extremely hot (>40C) and this would create condensation inside? Other possibility as the gopro gets extremely hot is that the outside of the housing condensed in the ac cabin and the oring system is basic some drops of water found their way in? Housing would be opened and closed quickly to extract camera batteries for recharge or back up memory card data
Cameras wouldn't go anywhere as pics were now on laptops or iPads

---------- Post added April 5th, 2014 at 01:37 PM ----------

I think I have worked it out.

Going into the air conditioned cabin can be a mistake depending on conditions and what you do with the camera. Assume cabin humidity 60% standard setting on a boat

Temperature in battery compartment = 35C (a video or compact camera easily get so hot)

Deck at 75% Humidity Temperature 32C all good
Cabin at 60% Humidity Temperature 22C the battery compartment condensates will then fog

Different situation resort in Bali
Deck at 90% Humidity Temperature 32C the battery compartment condenses
Room at 60% Humidity Temperature 25C battery compartment condenses

Another case in Egypt
Deck at 45% Humidity Temperature 36C all good
Cabin at 60% Humidity (it is actually dumper in the cabin usually as you use the bathroom) Temperature 24 condensation in the battery compartment


Same as before instead of shooting stills Temperature battery compartment = 30C

Deck at 75% Humidity Temperature 32C all good
Cabin at 60% Humidity Temperature 22C all good

Different situation resort in Bali
Deck at 90% Humidity Temperature 32C all good
Room at 60% Humidity Temperature 25C all good

Another case in Egypt
Deck at 45% Humidity Temperature 36C all good
Cabin at 60% HumidityTemperature 24C all good

Does this make sense?
 

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