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OP
Craig Myers

Craig Myers

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Location
Pickens SC
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50 - 99
I think what "kablooey" (pretty sure this is a screen name and not her real name) is trying to say is pretty much what I was suggesting in my post when I mentioned the Dunning-Kruger effect.

It turns out that by no fault of our own that people who "don't know what they don't know" are both (a) more likely than they deserve to be convinced that they possess knowledge and expertise that they do not and (b) far more likely than others to overstate their level of competence in a specific area because they literally lack the expertise needed to identify their own lack of it.

You can see this effect at work on the news every single day, which will give you some examples to watch, although I don't want to make the post about popular culture or politics. Once you can see this, you see it EVERYWHERE.

I think what several of us have triggered on in this thread is that you start the OP by describing yourself as a subject matter expert (which, I can assure you, you are not) and then carry on to eventually speak authoritatively on the "mistakes" of training agencies, even blaming them for the situation your struggling buddy finds himself in.

... and let me be clear that this is not to blame you for anything. We are ALL guilty of this in some context or another. It's a human condition and not some specific failing of you as an individual that shows up only here.

It is, however, very much relevant to the OP, so I would challenge you to view what you said there from the perspective of someone who may, indeed, be a subject matter expert.

R..
Understand. And I will definitely look that up. Thank you for your input.
 

Rob9876

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I think what several of us have triggered on in this thread is that you start the OP by describing yourself as a subject matter expert (which, I can assure you, you are not) and then carry on to eventually speak authoritatively on the "mistakes" of training agencies, even blaming them for the situation your struggling buddy finds himself in.
Respectfully, I believe you misunderstood the OP's original post. He starts the post saying "I am in know way calling myself a subject matter expert".

Then he goes on to ask a question: whether this buddy's lack of basic safety checks (weights not secure, BCD not set up properly, etc.) is a symptom of problems with training programs. Seems like a fair question to ask in the Basic Scuba Discussions forum, regardless of what one believes the answer is.
 
OP
Craig Myers

Craig Myers

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Location
Pickens SC
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50 - 99
Respectfully, I believe you misunderstood the OP's original post. He starts the post saying "I am in know way calling myself a subject matter expert".

Then he goes on to ask a question: whether this buddy's lack of basic safety checks (weights no secure, BCD not set up properly, etc.) is a symptom of problems with training programs. Seems like a fair question to ask in the Basic Scuba Discussions forum, regardless of what one believes the answer is.

Thank you for actually "reading" my post. And on that context I will further emphasize that I am not a SME and will edit my original post to highlight that statement.
 

Diver0001

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Respectfully, I believe you misunderstood the OP's original post. He starts the post saying "I am in know way calling myself a subject matter expert".

After reading back I think you're right. My bad. I misread the OP. When I initially read it the spelling mistake made me think that it said "I KNOW I am calling myself a subject matter expert"......

Pretty much everything I said after that was a reaction to what I *thought* I read, not what he actually said.

Thank you for pointing out my mistake. I apologize.

R..
 

Bob DBF

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I just don't log dives
This concerns me to the point of asking you all. It seems to me that dive shops in general just want to push "numbers" through for a profit and not genuinely take the time to make sure the individuals they teach have the processes and procedures down pat. Why aren't more stringent checks taught? Why isn't there an over emphasis for a better safety culture? I am not necessarily blaming the dive shop moreover I am blaming the organization for not having more stringent standards. What are your opinions? Or am I being over cautious?

Although any business is working for a profit, there is a set of standards that are used in each class to properly train a diver. Since, it seems you are taking the same training, your friend had to pass that same training so he knows the proper procedures.

As for more stringent standards, we might like them, but there is no way to enforce the class behavior after a diver has their card. All the diver has to do is pass the class, it may just mean stepping up their game for the class, then reverting to their normal behavior.

As for safety culture, I've been a solo diver for 50+ years and have heard all the lectures. All are well meaning, safety conscious, and other than a few bits, have been ignored by me.

And of course the big question, would you like any instructor, shop, or agency to have the ability to revoke your C-card as they see fit in order to keep you safe untill you could prove yourself worthy by taking OW again?

As for your friend, you tried to help and are frustrated, you did what you can do. Before you and your other friends move on, sit down one on one and let him know why you will no longer dive with him. It could change his attitude, definatly will change his dive buddies. I limit my time as a mentor to those that want the help.

As far as caution, you should pick your dive buddys that are compatible with your diving. I will dive with almost anyone once, sometimes more, but I've only had a handful of real trusted buddies the whole time I've been diving.



Bob
 
OP
Craig Myers

Craig Myers

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Messages
47
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Location
Pickens SC
# of dives
50 - 99
To the OP. Welcome to ScubaBoard. What you are experiencing in this thread is typical ScubaBoard. Good luck.

I figured as much. And as with anywhere everyone is entitled to their own opinions. Some good, some bad, and some can be offensive. That being said if you post on a board asking for others opinions you better be ready to hear them. I take all into consideration and use the systematic approach as to what will apply and what I will utilize.
 

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