Killing lionfish, does it work?

[DazedAndConfuzed]

But none of those are classified as invasive species. Look up the difference between "exotic species" and the subset "invasive species", and Executive Order 13112.

Much of the weeds every person trying to get rid of their lawn were originally plants brought over for their lawn. Now that they are not desired, we spend billions of dollars trying to wipe them out so the current favorite invasive species (grass) could thrive, not very successfully though.

As for what's the harm with killing the lionfish...now the scuba divers have becomes predators in the reef, where before, we were just these benign transients that came and went. If other fish in the lionfish's vicinity scatters away from the spearing of lionfish, they will soon be keeping away from all divers that pass by, for all they know, they thought they have escaped an attempt on their life.

 

[b-dog]

Do you think that because you have done your own research and arrived at that defensible conclusion or do you think that because that is what you chose to think?

A little somewhat scientific information if you would like: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/cozumel/400850-origin-lionfish-invasion.html

I'm sure you will be able to find much more if you want to go looking.

Those videos are nice. But they don't even mention the obvious reason why lionfish are so prevalent which is because the other predatory fish have been overfished. There are far fewer groupers, snappers and sharks than in the past and this resulted in an over abundance of small fish. The large amount of small fish is the reason why there are many lion fish as they are assuming the role that the overfished predators had before they were overfished. The elimination of predators will damage the ecosystem far more than the lion fish.

 

[redacted]

Those videos are nice. But they don't even mention the obvious reason why lionfish are so prevalent which is because the other predatory fish have been overfished. There are far fewer groupers, snappers and sharks than in the past and this resulted in an over abundance of small fish. The large amount of small fish is the reason why there are many lion fish as they are assuming the role that the overfished predators had before they were overfished. The elimination of predators will damage the ecosystem far more than the lion fish.

so what is your solution? Should we do away with all fish and game regulations and let nature (with man ) take its natural course? Perhaps we should modify regulations some more to encourage the harvest of the abundance of small fish? I would not mind seeing food sources like nước mắm becoming more prevalent.

Maybe folks would like a little on their fried lionfish nuggets.

 

[Guba]

One "partial solution" (not solving the entire problem, but possibly buying us some time to figure it out) could be increasing the development of more MPA's (Marine Protection Areas). There is evidence that significant swaths of productive ocean where fishing and removing resources is limited can provide a place for stressed species to recover and even move into areas where damage is prevalent.

 

[endurodog]

One of the things I have heard on this is that lion fish are new to many areas (we all understand that) and that it's not that predatory fish are not there but they don't know how to eat them. I have heard some stories that killing them and feeding them to groupers are teaching them to then go out and hunt them. This practice sounds reasonable and like it could lead to keeping the population at a workable level. Again this is just hear say but it sounds reasonable to me.

 

[freshorangina]

Just something to think about, does killing a bird and then feeding it to your dog teach your dog how to hunt birds? Not really, but it does teach it that if a person is carrying a dead bird that might be their lunch. I personally do not think it is a good idea to train eels for handouts from divers.

 

[redacted]

Just something to think about, does killing a bird and then feeding it to your dog teach your dog how to hunt birds? Not really, but it does teach it that if a person is carrying a dead bird that might be their lunch. I personally do not think it is a good idea to train eels for handouts from divers.

I had bird dogs for years. Hunting birds is instinctive for them, just like hunting smaller fish is instinctive to ocean predators. Initially, part of training the dog to retrieve and deliver the undamaged birds did employ birds that were killed and used for that purpose. Dogs that did not handle the birds gently enough were trained with birds that had sharp objects inserted in them that caused the dogs pain if they did not handle them properly. Once the dogs understood that undamaged birds were good and damaged birds were bad, I did feed the doge the head and guts from retrieved birds as a reinforcement of their hunting desires.

Works for hunting dogs. Why should it not work for hunting fish? (Now if we could just get them to point.)

 

[endurodog]

Just something to think about, does killing a bird and then feeding it to your dog teach your dog how to hunt birds? Not really, but it does teach it that if a person is carrying a dead bird that might be their lunch. I personally do not think it is a good idea to train eels for handouts from divers.

Groupers are not exactly eels, well they arn't eels at all. They are not attacking divers. All though there was that one movie where they... ohhh wait that was sharks. It's not a continues feeding, it's showing the groupers that the new species is edible. Now will that take hold or not through the fish as a species, that is a question I have. But it does have a much better chance of controling Lion Fish than divers taking them in my opinion.

 

[Guba]

Just by chance, I saw a fascinating scene in a documentary last night. I don't remember the network, but it was a segment on the dynamic relationships that occur in ocean environments. In this particular scene, a large grouper was defending its territory from a good-sized lionfish. It was interesting to watch the grouper herd the lionfish away, and the grouper was quite aggressive. It would have been difficult for it to actually try to eat the lionfish, since the latter was over half a meter long and its spines were very long and large. Still, it shows the interplay between the two species, and I found it interesting in the light of a lot of the discussion we have had here on SB. Of course, the scene played out in the Pactific, not the Atlantic or Carib.

 

[ajduplessis]

In the case of lion fish it is more of trying to control an invasive species that otherwise has no other natural predator. Without divers killing lion fish one might argue the lion fish are able to kill off many endemic species.

It is unlikely to completely eradicate them but IMO is of some benefit to at least try and control the population.

This also holds true for the human race!!! Don't see anyone culling humans to help safe other species and habitats.

Stop overfishing, forest clearings, unsafe oil transport and extraction, CO2 emission, hunger, poverty and corporate greed to name a few. We have a lot bigger problems to resolve than lionfish!!!!!!! Playing God is what is causing most of our problems and have other impacts we can't even start to understand.

My $0.02