Kids & SCUBA Materials ????

[NetPro]

My 12 and 14 year old sons got certified with me this June. They did considerably better in both the classroom / tests and the pool / OW than some of the adults in the class. The class material is fine for kids just the way it is but you may want to simplify it for some adults.

We have done about 15 dives since the cert including Shore dives, boat dives and a drift dive in the Niagara River. All 3 of us are enjoying being able to learn new things and refine our techniques on every dive.

My kids dive only with me or an instructor. The instructors have told me that the kids are better divers than a lot of adults they dive with.

As in everything, I don't believe you can't make a blanket statement about people's ability in this area.

That said, given the opportunity to choose between diving with adults I didn't know or kids I didn't know I would choose the adults.

Jeff

 

[Drew Sailbum]

Kids and diving is just not a good mix in my experience. I have come across a few that might could handle it all, but I have issued very few certifications to anyone under 16.

As to the reading level of the PADI O/W text... I does present a few problems for some kids. I had a 15yr old student who aced everything in the pool, but struggled horribly with the academics due to his relatively poor reading skills. He could explain the concepts and make reasonably assumptions about how to handle various problems. He just didn't have a very good vocabulary, and struggled with the wording of many of the test questions.

The real question is whether we are doing him and children like him any favors by lowering his barrier. Achieving an Open Water certification is quite an accomplishment for many youngsters. Remember that many major universities have scuba certification courses for college credit.

I don't have a hard and fast rule, but if a young student is having too much difficulty, I will strongly suggest that now may not be the best time to try scuba. Young egos are a little fragile, and letting them down gently is important if the whole idea was the youngster's. Some kids are relieved to be steered away as a pushy parent is the motivating factor. How scary is that!?

 

[The Chairman]

Venture Scouts is a subset of the Boy Scouts of America; the people who defined "etreme sports" for America for almost a hundred years now. Unlike Cub or Boy Scouts, it is Co-ed. In fact, my crew (the Scuba Ducks: Crew 7) is mostly female. The "Guide to Safe Scouting" sets 14 as the minimum age to join Venture Scouts OR to SCUBA dive as part of a Scout sanctioned event. Consequently, my son who got certified WAY TOO EARLY (at 11 with PADI) is still not able to join the Scuba Ducks as we explore planet Ocean. He will join this coming March.

I like 14 as a minimum, and it has worked out well for me. The kids can stay focused, and can plan their dives (yes, I supervise). The BSA also has a strict rule in that all groups must be accompanied by a Divemaster or greater, and they only currently accept PADI or NAUI certifications. I also add that there must be two adults present and that the ratio MUST be 6/1 (kids/adults) while in the water.

I too am concerned more with bone growth and nitrogen. I wish that my son was not yet certified, but I know he is more than mature enough for it. He is fairly quick to call a dive when he feels something is wrong... he just won't push it! That tells me he is using discernment in his diving decisions and I like that!

Don't change the questions... if they are not mature enough to study and get them right, then they are definitely NOT mature enough to dive. Bew just as hard on them in the water as you would an adult too. They have just as much right to survive as we do, so lets make sure they can do it all!

 

[WreckWriter]

the Boy Scouts of America; the people who defined "etreme sports" for

Pete, you gotta explain that one for me please.

Tom

 

[AquaTec]

My comments on kids and diving.

I started diving when I was nine, I still don’t know what the heck I am doing 30 years later.

Back then my father hooked an extra reg to his rig [unheard of then, now called an octopus] and I swam along with him.
This was in Hawaii and diving the shallow reefs in a bathing suit was easy and natural.

So here I am today teaching kids to dive, starting with my own the first time they dove they where 6 and 8 respectively. We dove in a swimming pool the same way me and my dad did so many years ago.

Now they are 8 and 11 I am still not willing to fully certify them as dive on their own scuba divers. However they are welcome to dive on there own in the pool when I am teaching others.

As for teaching kids that are not my own, I find that most of them are natural in the water, but their academics can be beyond them.
I have actually passed very few. But some have passed and done well. The few I have passed their parents where either in the class as well or already active divers, just as a side notes.

My beliefs on kids and diving [under 16, based on average maturity]
This needs to be a family event
The kid needs to be very comfortable in their diving environment
It must be fun
They should be babysat for quite a while
Depths should be kept very shallow
Gear must fit comfortable, and they should be familiar with it


I see nothing wrong with a person say an instructor taking their kids diving with them at a very young age, as long as the kids are not pushed. I have told my kids that they won't go in the ocean until we are in a tropical environment; say on a shallow reef with an amazing amount of safe marine life.

Yes I am going to baby-sit them, and let their diving evolve over years. They have both read the open water manual several times, and I find them explaining to students sometimes. But they comprehend the very basics; yet don't quite understand the more complex issues.

I think that teaching a child to dive is like teaching them to do math, they will learn quickly the basics, but it will take years for them to master all that math is about.

Bottom line, get your kids in the water, but take care of them as you would in any other risky sport, like snow skiing. Start them out on the bunny slopes and ski/dive with them.

 

[Ontario Diver]

First of all;...

An "under-16 diver" cannot just go diving on thier own. Under the PADI standards, they are restricted to no more than 40 ft and they may only dive with a certified parent/guardian or with an Instructor (No DM or AI).

All of the Dr.s I talked to told me that there was no reason that an extra ATM (ie to 33 ft) would pose a danger to growing bones. (One was a hyperbaric Dr.) Granted each also spoke that there were no clinical trials that they were aware of.

Next point, not all kids under 16 not all adults over 20 are mentally prepared (or physically) prepared to dive. It is a responsibility of the parent and Instructor to make that call. I personally believe that most kids and most adults should NOT be diving.

I do not believe that "dumbing down" or "Kidizing" the questions are needed. The student (kid or adult) needs to know the terminology that is used. Period.

BTW, my 11 has certified and he only dives with me, and his instructor. That is it. He is restricted to 30 ft, but where I take him diving is only 20ft. . And he is aware that one safety mistake - he loses his diving for six months. He was reviewed by three separate instructors to ensure that he was prepared for diving.

And as well, as instructor or a dive buddy with any neophite diver cannot "rely" on the buddy. Diving with a child is not different.

Let's not forget the pluses to the child diving - he has been accepted by a number of "mature" divers. (Imagine a room full of technical divers each with 1000+ dives, trimix, and dives to 300+ ft. in a room listening with rapt attention to a kid who is talking about his first pool dive!). He is doing something that no one in his school is doing. ALL of his family and friends have make a big deal over his accomplishment.

Just like horse riding, football, and hockey - kids can get hurt in sports like diving. It is up to the parent, coaches and instructors to develop and ensure a safe environment.

And I fully agree with Aquatech

 

[The Chairman]

WreckWriter once bubbled...
Pete, you gotta explain that one for me please.
Tom

As you wish...

The BSA has been synonymous with adventure and service to country since its inception. Heck, even Hitler kept an eye out for them, for Baden Powell was a GREAT spy after all. Before rock climbing was a huge sport, we were scaling the sides of mountains. White water canoeing and kayaking was our forte! Who do you think first rode bicycles in the back country… on old single speed ballooned tired corntraptions too! They sail masted ships on the open sea, SCUBA dive all over, there have even been “Air Scouts”. I love the Brad Pitt line when he is asked where he learned to “shoot like that”. His nonchalant response was; “The Boy Scouts”.

Less than 2 percent of all the boys in the US become involved with Boy Scouts. Of those… less than one percent attains the rank of Eagle. Pretty small percentage wouldn’t you think? Well, of all the guys who walked on the moon… all but ONE was an Eagle Scout, and he was a Life Scout at that. What are the odds of that happening? See if you can figure out who it is… and if you do a biography of him you will find that this great American had but one disappointment in life… that he didn’t make Eagle. The Boy Scouts have taught so many boys to push their limits and explore the world around them even as it taught them how to be men.

I am proud of the association that I have had with the BSA from my youth until now. I am proud of the service they render for their communities and their nation on a daily basis. I proud to be able to mentor the young men and women who will one day run this great country of ours. I am proud to recite the Scout Oath…

“On my honor I will DO MY BEST, to do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law; To help other people at all times, to keep myself physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight.”

And you thought I was only passionate about diving… sorry about the rant… its back to your regularly scheduled thread.

 

[Liquid]

I live in Israel, and here it's forbiden by law to train new divers younger than 12.

But with those of ages 12-14 I found out it sometimes is the greatest courses to teach. Make young kids love the ocean and diving. make them good and conciencess divers, fully aware of their enviment. With adults the later may sometimes be more difficult.

 

[AquaTec]

NetDoc once bubbled...



“On my honor I will DO MY BEST, to do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law; To help other people at all times, to keep myself physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight.”

God Bless the boy scouts

The boy scouts are as American as apple pie.

I am an Eagle Scout, and it hit an old cord to here the oath again.
My mother was the first Weblows leader in California. my father was a Cub Scout leader.

My first back packing trip was with the Boy Scouts a good 50 miler
and you are right, they where/are the first to promote extreme sports as a group.

Today I volunteer to teach Cubs and girl scouts every year how to scuba dive, we do the Bubble Maker course once a year and its a pleasure to see tradition continue.

 

[ElectricZombie]

Kids should NOT be diving period. Most of them do not do very well in the classroom or pool. Their attention span is non existant and they would be unable to mentally handle/work through a emergency situation. Most of the college students here can't do this, why should we expect a kid to be any different?

Case and Point:


I was up at Lake Rawlings in Virginia about a month ago working with some students and saw this kid that was no older than 7 or 8 diving. When he and his group ascended, one of the adults mentioned that he should pay less attention to his camera and more attention to his buddy. The kid immediatly threw a huge tantrum; crying, banging his head in the water (why?), screaming, you name it. I was totally shocked, stopped my lecture and just watched. If this kid can't take a simple piece of advice, how can he handle the responsibility of diving? How does anyone expect some 7 year old to be able to competently perform a rescue? If the father of this kid is trying to get rid of him, then he is doing a good job. Unbeleivable.


I would like to see the age moved up to 16 or 18.