Kelvin Grove Officially Off Limits

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Colleagues - If we all will keep the silence it may happen again, with an another site... :(((

Why not to collect signatures and and send a paper letter from BC divers to the city of Lions Bay major? Is anyone has an idea how we can do that?

P.S. I really wanna see Kelvin's octopuses again.. :)
 
Ok, so I got confirmation that my letter was forwarded to the mayor and councilors. But here's the thing... city council isn't in session until Sept. 8th which means they probably won't be discussing the issue until then.

What do you think about gathering up a posse and heading out for a dive at Kelvin on Sept. 8th then making our way over to the council chambers to have our say? The meeting begins at 7pm.

As Captain Black suggested, perhaps we should put together some kind of petition to present to council as well? We could leave pages at all the local dive shops and ask them to pass it around when people pick up tanks/fills.

In the meantime, I don't think it would hurt if anyone felt like emailing the mayor's office to voice their concerns. But please be polite, we don't want to make things worse. office@lionsbay.ca
 
I would encourage all divers to write on the Lions Bay Blog in regard to anti Kelvins Grove diving. that way, the concerns are made public. The Mayor and Councillors are reading the blog, but they are slow in publishing new posts. It may take several complaints before they post your comment.Lions Bay Community Online BC Canada - Ticket and Tow Starts in Kelvin Grove - July 31!!!
Ticket and Tow Starts in Kelvin Grove - July 31!!!
Source: Lions Bay Community Online BC Canada - Home
Lions Bay community located british columbia canada sea-to-sky corridor, located before squamish and whistler, horseshoe bay, vancouver, news, events, free classifieds, rentals, homes for sale, village, ...
 
I would encourage all divers to write on the Lions Bay Blog in regard to anti Kelvins Grove diving. that way, the concerns are made public. The Mayor and Councillors are reading the blog, but they are slow in publishing new posts. It may take several complaints before they post your comment.Lions Bay Community Online BC Canada - Ticket and Tow Starts in Kelvin Grove - July 31!!!
Ticket and Tow Starts in Kelvin Grove - July 31!!!
Source: Lions Bay Community Online BC Canada - Home
Lions Bay community located british columbia canada sea-to-sky corridor, located before squamish and whistler, horseshoe bay, vancouver, news, events, free classifieds, rentals, homes for sale, village, ...

Great suggestion - it took 2 days, but the story is up.
 
"I would like to ask for everyone's diplomatic help in correcting the Lions Bay bylaws.

Please visit their website at:
http://www.lionsbay.net/content/view/695/79/

Post a POLITE comment on their website expressing your concerns with their non-resident bylaw(s). I am personally opposed to both the non-resident parking bylaw (Parking and Traffic 10[h]) and of course the non-resident scuba diving bylaw as mentioned here. Unlike parts of Vancouver, there is no shortage of parking spots at Kelvin Grove. The parking bylaw has been created simply because "they don't like our kind around here". That's not going to cut it and neither is an $8 parking pass. Parking there should be free, no if ands or buts.

When you post a comment on their website, DO NOT swear, threaten or write anything that is obviously stupid. Their Mayor and council members ARE reading the comments and taking them seriously. Please don't screw things up by making the diving community sound like a bunch of inconsiderate thugs or idiots. It may only take one inappropriate comment to discredit the whole voice of the diving community.

Thanks in advance for your carefully chosen words and help,
 
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I am not, and will not likely ever be, a Facebook user...so I'll politely and diplomatically send them an e-mail.

We're having a similar situation in Ontario in several places: Barrie (Big Bay Point) Brockville (Centeen Park) and Toronto (Humber Bay). Barrie and Brockville are parking etc issues with the residents, while Toronto is over zealous Parks Department officers blocking access in the winter.
 
I've got an idea. We can post signs at our municipal parks. "No Lions Bay Residents Allowed" Or "Paid Parking Required For Lions Bay Residents Only".

Their website states that they are concerned about cliff jumpers who walk on the rail road tracks. If they are worried about liability they should post signs prohibiting access to the tracks or cliff jumping in an area if it is proven to be dangerous.

Banning all non residents is just going the easy route with no regard for people who live outside of their gated community. It sounds like the councilors of Lions Bay are letting a bunch of nimby's and their lawyers run the community.
 
I have received a response from one of the councilors at Lions Bay today. I have to admit, it's taken some of the wind from my sails but at least now we know what we're dealing with:

Your recent note regarding Council's decision to restrict scuba diving to Lions Bay residents and their guests at Kelvin Grove Beach Park, in a new Parks bylaw adopted on July 20th, 2009, is one of several notes that Lions Bay has received recently. I myself worked on the revision in our Parks bylaw and would like to take this opportunity to respond and provide you with some background to the decision.

First, Lions Bay Village Council was within its rights to restrict diving within one of our parks, and to establish residents-only parking zones near the park. Section 8 (3) of the Community Charter gives fundamental rights to municipalities to legislate in regard to public places, which include parks. A municipality may legislate regarding parking near a beach, and any activity to be carried out within the park, which includes the section of the beach including the foreshore. All sorts of activities within parks can be governed by municipal bylaws, as a quick inspection of most municipalities’ list of bylaws can confirm. BC Community Charter Section 36 also deals with general municipal powers in regard to what can occur on highways in municipalities. Parking is one area where municipalities commonly exercise these powers by bylaw, and residents-only parking zones are common in Metro.



Second, let me try to summarize Lions Bay's situation as regards resources, bylaw enforcement and visitors. Lions Bay is a small village with about 1400 people and thus its small tax base can support only very limited bylaw enforcement. In the summer, that enforcement has to stretch over three beach areas and a hiking area, situated kilometers apart. Meanwhile, next door to us is a huge metropolitan area which both supplies and attracts thousands of visitors yearly, many of whom would like to enjoy Lions Bay's natural setting. So a Council in a Village has to maintain a balance between the needs of residents and visitors.

Lions Bay residents are mostly very happy to have visitors to come and enjoy its beautiful natural surroundings. The Village’s parks are our own community's property, and unlike most parks in Metro Vancouver, are in no way subsidized by Metro Vancouver but operated and funded entirely out of Lions Bay’s small tax base. Nonetheless, Lions Bay residents want Village parking and other policies to accommodate a reasonable number of visitors. Scores of non-residents visit the main beach on hot summer days, while the Village’s hiking area is a regular destination for hikers and Council recently invested in an information kiosque for them.

However, sometimes small neighborhoods receive more visitors than they can comfortably handle, or become subject to problem behavior by visitors. This is the situation in Kelvin Grove, a natural target area for visitors which include local Lions Bay residents, casual swimmers, dog owners from as far as Horseshoe Bay because the beach is dog-friendly, divers and youthful tourists wanting to access a local cliff jump. Although any beach area with a parking lot must tolerate a certain amount of disruption in the summertime, this small neighborhood faces more than its share of challenges from visitors.

In this context, the diving restrictions Council has imposed are only part of a package of measures recently instituted, aimed at providing relief to the neighborhood.

Issues with divers were among many other issues reported to Council, and may relate to the area's physical layout. The park lacks group change-room facilities and has only one tiny washroom. Divers tend to leave their clothes in their cars in the parking lot, which is uphill and distant from the beach, separated from it by the railroad tracks. Upon returning after a dive, rather than go back down into the park and wait their turn at the washroom to change, too many of them strip down to sometimes total nudity at their cars and then urinate around the parking lot, within view of residences. They have also done this at the entrance of the park, while people with children were passing. This behavior does not occur at Whytecliff Park or Porteau Cove, and may well be the behavior of a minority. That said, residents from the immediate area and elsewhere in Lions Bay have many anecdotes and photographs, and two members on Council have personally experienced rude and provocative behavior of this kind by divers.

As the popularity of diving in Kelvin Grove has also been growing in recent years, I and other Council members felt that the Village could not deal with overall visitor issues in the area without trying to deal with those regarding divers. The policy alternatives were few. Council cannot ask Lions Bay taxpayers to fund enforcement in this small area all day, in proportion to the number of visitors it receives. Reservation or monitoring systems are impractical when the Village office closes on weekends and personnel cannot be kept at Kelvin Grove to track and report visitor behaviour. Landscape redesign and physical investments require both resources and consensus on design, which are difficult to find. In short, a Council in a small Village must sometimes move to maintain the delicate balance between the needs of residents and visitors, in the absence of attractive alternatives.

In deciding to restrict diving to Lions Bay residents and their guests, Council's belief was that having a resident along on a dive would tend to keep a group on good behavior. We also reasoned that Whytecliff and Porteau Cove provide good alternatives for other divers.

Again, I hope this will help clarify the reasoning of Council in this matter.

Sincerely,

Peach Akerhielm, Councillor
VILLAGE OF LIONS BAY
 
Mr Akerhielm,

Thank you for thorough reply.

I am relatively familiar with the Community Charter but could you please provide me with the appropriate sections that state a Municipality may;
1) disregard the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms (specifically Sections 6 and 15);
2) have authority to govern the foreshore of the Municipality.

Division 2 of the Community Charter discusses the Relationship of Provincial Laws and area of Jurisdiction. I do not see anything in there that permits the creation of the Lions Bay Parks Regulation bylaw 12.1 or the Traffic and Parking bylaw 10(h).

Regards,
 
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