Kansas man dies diving Bonne Terre

[ajduplessis]

Information in some of these cases is as scarce as hens teeth.

More like, nearly all cases. The last incident I can recall where clear information was made public was the gent that used the wrong gas in WKKP. It's just the nature of these kind of posts. The down side is that divers will speculate and debate. This help nothing except for highlighting possible scenarios and hopefully waking up a couple of divers.

It's always very sad to hear about a diver losing his/her life. Thought are with family and friends.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

There were a couple of short swim-throughs and we were told in advance that we could either go through if we were comfortable or around.

Taking OW divers into any kind of overhead, into cold water for the first time, not enforcing proper buddy procedures, beyond recommended depths, etc. Practices that are allowed to take place and a blind eye turned to by the agencies that sometimes result in dead divers seem to have an acceptable level of occurrence since no action is taken and no public light shone on them.

Come on Jim? Was this fatality into an overhead or deeper than recommended? I think not! And are you saying a dive guide is a dive police officer who should "force" divers into their definition of "proper buddy procedures"?

I would like to see links to the dead divers data due these practices.

 

[Blue Sparkle]

The down side is that divers will speculate and debate.

I don't see this as a downside, especially if it is thoughtful.

This help nothing except for highlighting possible scenarios and hopefully waking up a couple of divers.

But that "except for" is one of the purposes and benefits to this sub-forum, as I see it. Also, I would think that it affects more than "a couple of" divers.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Come on Jim? Was this fatality into an overhead or deeper than recommended? I think not! And are you saying a dive guide is a dive police officer who should "force" divers into their definition of "proper buddy procedures"?

I would like to see links to the dead divers data due these practices.

I don't know if it was or not. I do know it is cold water, there are numerous reports of divers being herded into groups and being confused about who their buddy is or where they are. There is no excuse for that in a dive of this type. Divers are not allowed to carry lights, someone who gets feeling a little squirrely is led back by one of the guides to the entry point. If this is the case then the divers buddy should be with them. And then who takes the missing guides place? When I noted the various examples I did not specifically state that all of them ocurred at this location.

As for one incident go back and read the Grand Cayman thread started by fosterboxermom on here. Buddy procedures were not enforced on that dive. Herd diving was and a man died after getting separated. Anytime divers who are not experienced enough or have enough training to dive solo get separated they are risking disaster. I cited 4 incidents in a presentation on the failure of the buddy system where buddy separation played a role in diver deaths. Was it the cause? No. But in at least two of them the surviving buddy was in no physical position to help the deceased and therefore they never even had a chance to help.

If you are going to not allow divers to plan and dive their own dive then yes I do believe that a professional whose agency advocates the buddy system should enforce proper procedures on those divers. It should be abundantly clear to everyone who their buddy is and that there is no excuse for them not being together on the dive. Otherwise the BS practice of lip service regarding buddy skills is just perpetuated.

The single file tours on checkouts, lack of insistence on proper buoyancy control and position of the two divers, etc. When you have an operation that essentially tells the divers that they will take care of them with a leader and "safety divers" so they get the impression that they don't need to be good dive buddy's you might as well put a sign up that says "buddy diving is overrated and unnecessary for new divers". Because that is what they are doing.

If a diver is having serious buoyancy control problems then they need to be addressed with that diver and the divers buddy present. You don't say Joe is having problems so I'm going to take him back and you just go on with the group. That is reckless and irresponsible on the part of the "professional" making that call. Because now you have a lone diver with no buddy and no one in the group knows to keep an eye on them. What if that diver gets spooked because he/she is now alone and bolts. Whose fault is that? I say it's the professionals and the op as they created the situation.

If you don;t want to be responsible for enforcing good buddy procedures fine. Just don't insist that divers follow your every move. Make sure they know that they are on their own. Make sure that they have a plan before they hit the water independent of your own so that if something does happen they know how to deal with it. I've been invited on two trips to this site but will not go. I'd love to see it. But not on their terms. I decide how much gas I need, I decide when I need to carry a light, I decide on my own pace, and I decide when to turn and end the dive. And my buddy and I return together. We are not going to be separated. And it should be abundantly clear to everyone in the group who is buddied up with who nd easy to tell by looking at them. If they can't do that they have no business in that environment.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

I was diving at Bonne Terre that day when this happended. He was on the 1st trail, 1st dive of the day. He was in a group of 10-13 divers.

from post #9

Kansas man dies at Bonne Terre Mines - KFVS12 News & Weather Cape Girardeau, Carbondale, Poplar Bluff

According to Bonne Terre Police Chief Doug Calvert, the man dove into the water and had some sort of medical problem under the water.

the above also in post #13

His sister said he was very outdoorsy and had dived off the Florida Keys, the Cayman Islands, even submerged caves in old mines. She further added he was very experienced and doing what he loved.

the above also in post #15

So it appears he was an experienced diver, it was not deeper than 50', there were no overheads and the Chief of Police said there was a medical problem underwater. But I guess fear mongering will sell a few books &/or AOW classes.

 

[Ayisha]

Not surprising to those of us who have looked into different fatalities involving shops or operations. Information in some of these cases is as scarce as hen's teeth. Some of it is due to liablility and legal issues. Another part that should not be is PR. Having someone die on your site, boat, resort, etc is not good for business.

I'm not surprised about not getting official information. I'm surprised that we haven't gotten the leaks of information that we usually do with at least the basics of the accident if not a little more.

Taking OW divers into any kind of overhead, into cold water for the first time, not enforcing proper buddy procedures, beyond recommended depths, etc. Practices that are allowed to take place and a blind eye turned to by the agencies that sometimes result in dead divers seem to have an acceptable level of occurrence since no action is taken and no public light shone on them.

Apparently the fatality took place on Trail #1 and our max depth was 50 feet and the viz was 75 feet on that trail. The mine is well lit and you don't really need lights. However, we all had a primary and backup light in our group. I have read that they're not allowed to take lights on the first dive (Trail #1), but I'm pretty sure we took our lights on all the trails.

The surface temp was 57F and the bottom temp was 50F. The mine itself was about 58F, cool and clammy.

There was no real overhead on any of the beginner trails we did: #1, 2, 3, 4, and 7. There were a couple of tiny swim-throughs that we were told in advance we could go through or around, but I don't believe trail #1 had any kind of swimthrough.

We all assigned ourselves into buddy teams, but I can't say that they were followed religiously, although there were no issues or separations.

If you don;t want to be responsible for enforcing good buddy procedures fine. Just don't insist that divers follow your every move. Make sure they know that they are on their own. Make sure that they have a plan before they hit the water independent of your own so that if something does happen they know how to deal with it.

Jim, I'm sure that you know that this certainly couldn't happen at Bonne Terre Mine unless the divers know how to follow a permanent guideline and can lead themselves in and out of each trail and plan and manage their gas supply appropriately i.e.) minimum cavern certification. The difference between the mine and a cavern environment is that if one did get lost, you could just surface anywhere. The viz is fabulous and you should be able to see your group/leaders, but if not, you could just wait to be rescued on the surface rather than "exploring" openings or other trails.

 

[Hatul]

That's cold. I'd imagine most use drysuits?

 

[Garth]

I'll reply like I always reply to a dive of 50 f:$&n degrees : it's called a drysuit with some thick undergarments. I know I am less able to deal with a problem when cold. I know that panic is amplified when cold. I know that air consumption is increased when cold. I know that blood flow to superficial tissue is decreased when cold. I know that... Why the heck people would dive that type of environment wet is beyond me. Everyone I've talked to who have dove that mine has said they were very cold and say out the last dive or has been in a drysuit.

 

[Notso_Ken]

That's cold. I'd imagine most use drysuits?

Cold? No, that's a pretty nice dive temp! Altho, I do have to admit I saw 65* yesterday, the water was great! 36*, now that would be cold.


Ken

 

[Avonthediver]

That is very sad. My prayers to his family & loved ones.

I would be very surprised if it was out of air. The three trails I did you were asked to show the lead guide your SPG so they could sort out those who had to turn around and go back and those who continue on. You were not asked to tell them your air, you had to actually show them your SPG twice on all three dives.

I'm curious about what you have said...you do three dives all on one tank? I have been their but never dove it so this is just me wanting info. But it does seem strange to do three dive's on one tank??? they must not be very long at all