Is selling Life Support Equipment on the Net Ethical ?

[Keysdrifter454]

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeFerrara
Yes we'll see. It's time that dive shops start looking to what divers want instead of being butt plugs to the big equipment manufacturers.

That says it all IMHO.

Absolutely.

 

[jbd]

Setting aside the ethics of selling gear over the internet and whether or not online sales will whither and die---what role does the LDS play in the current or near term dive industry?

 

[Firewalker]

Setting aside the ethics of selling gear over the internet and whether or not online sales will whither and die---what role does the LDS play in the current or near term dive industry?

Jbd, The LDS are the grass roots of the diving industry. I think the instructional agencies and the manufactures see that. Without the LDS there will be no diving industry. Most of the LDS and the industry as a whole took a big hit with 9/11 and are just now recovering(the industry as a whole went down over 30% after 9/11). My area was in the middle of a recession when 9/11 hit (we lost 5 stores around me in that time period).
Near term I think we will see more of the same, the store's that give good service and are smart with their overhead will make it and the one's that are not smart, will not. I would not get into the dive shop right now.

Firewalker

 

[Firefyter]

Jbd, The LDS are the grass roots of the diving industry.
Firewalker

BS...Most ( Not All ) LDS are the 7-11's of the industry. You only go in there if you're in a hurry to get it and don't mind what you pay for it.

I think the instructional agencies and the manufactures see that. Without the LDS there will be no diving industry.

Again, BS. That's why training is now being offered online. You can now get certified without ever walking into an LDS by doing your course online and doing referral dives anywhere you want. It doesn't sound to me like Padi gives a hoot for the LDS, as long as they get theirs. Unless the LDS is able to adapt to the market the way Scubatoys and a few others have done, they're going the way of the dinosaur.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Jbd, The LDS are the grass roots of the diving industry. I think the instructional agencies and the manufactures see that. Without the LDS there will be no diving industry.

I disagree. I don't have any problem engaging in archery and there isn't an archery shop around here either. I make my own arrows, strings ect and you guessed it...order supplies over the net.

In diving I pump/mix my own gas, do my own service and only need a place to buy equipment (mostly consumables like parts!) at a reasonable price.

Near term I think we will see more of the same, the store's that give good service and are smart with their overhead will make it and the one's that are not smart, will not. I would not get into the dive shop right now.

Firewalker

They may just not be doing a good job of figuring out what kind of service divers are looking for.

The fact is that the typical dive shop offers lousy instruction by instructors who can barely dive, high prices, extorsion like tactics and a refusal to support self sfficient divers with things like parts. A business like this can only expect to do business with new (before they wise up) or casual divers (who never do).

Of all the instructors I know I don't ever even recommend to any one that they go to a shop for a class. The best instructors I know are all independants.

 

[MSilvia]

Jbd, The LDS are the grass roots of the diving industry. Without the LDS there will be no diving industry.

You know, if we ignore that OEMs would probably choose to continue doing business through other means if there were not enough LDSs to allow them to continue doing business as they do now, and also that the charter, liveaboard, and resort businesses would do just fine if divers had to rely on independant instructors for certification instead of shops, there might be something to that.

That aside though, let's not confuse the diving industry with the diving community. If every LDS miraculously went out of business today, tomorrow you'd see more dive clubs budgeting for compressors, more instructors offering classes through local adult education programs or out of their basement shops, and avid divers continuing to avidly dive.

The grassroots of the industry might be the LDS, but the grassroots of the community is the divers.

 

[Mako Mark]

The internet business model (for scuba) is doomed and will die

:rofl:

 

[Nomaster]

Selling life support equipment on the net is unethical. It should not be supported by the dive community. It is harmful and maybe our undoing.

Firewalker

I'm in Korea, the costs here are so high that I just realized that if I outfit myself through the net and have everything delivered to my mother's home that I can visit her and everyone back home for a month on the difference.
Also there is the problem of the honest shop owners trying to sell me equipment that I have absolutely no use for. No one's tried to sell me a Titanium Wetsuit yet, but I figure that was just an oversight.
On line I can compare equipment and ask questions and not have to hear the sales pitch on why I should buy unproven or equipment with bells, whistles, and spangles for attracting other divers or creating envy or whatever schlock that seems the rule rather than exception.
Don't need to be pretty to dive, just need good serviceable equipment designed for my dive sites and choices. Oh, that's the main reason I signed up with SB, to get that kind of information from several practitioners.

Tom

 

[jbd]

Jbd, The LDS are the grass roots of the diving industry. I think the instructional agencies and the manufactures see that. Without the LDS there will be no diving industry. Most of the LDS and the industry as a whole took a big hit with 9/11 and are just now recovering(the industry as a whole went down over 30% after 9/11). My area was in the middle of a recession when 9/11 hit (we lost 5 stores around me in that time period).
Near term I think we will see more of the same, the store's that give good service and are smart with their overhead will make it and the one's that are not smart, will not. I would not get into the dive shop right now.

Firewalker

What role will the remaining dive shops play in the industry? It seems to me that the smart shops are getting into internet sales to expand their market area(Northeast Scuba Supply and Scubatoys come to mind) Others(like FredT) have selected a niche to fill and use the internet. There is Leisure Pro and Sports Chalet et al. Many are starting to adopt online training. There are numerous people providing the travel part of diving via the internet.

Does this leave the LDS with nothing more than air fills and maybe pool time?

 

[Mako Mark]

Firewalker, you have accused the internet based suppliers of Cherrypicking, but the truth is that if you have a client that comes into your store, listens to your sales pitch and then walks out and buys it from leisurepro.com, then you blew the sale. You failed to close, lining is not selling. Closing is selling.

Telling aint selling dude, and every time a client walks into your store a sale is made. Either you sell an item of equipment to the client, or he/she sells you a reason that you are not competitive with your legitimate, but online competition.

I think the reason that internet sales are growing is that people are less likely to trust retail sales people these days. They research and know what they want, then they shop around for the most convienient and best value for money deal, and if they can do this while sitting in front of the TV in their underwear and fluffy slippers, even better.

Lamenting the fact that a dive light or a pair of booties should not be sold over the internet beacause it is "life support equipment" is a load of bollox, and a regulator is easier to put together than your average kids bicycle.

This whole thread makes you sound like a protectionist whiner that is too lazy to get off his butt and confront retail dynamics.

Get with the program or get left behind dude.