Is scuba gear life support?

[davehicks]

Well, first of all, a twinset with with multiple stage tanks is also a Self Contained Underwater Breathing Apparatus. So, I guess that answers the basic question. It's very much supporting your life underwater and you are not swimming to the surface if it fails.

Second, in my opinion, promoting the idea that you can swim to the surface is exactly the wrong way to go about things and is seeding dangerous ways of thinking. If you're taught that your scuba gear is keeping you alive underwater you are going in with a safety mindset. You will check and double check your gear, learn to safely dive with a buddy and watch your air consumption underwater. CESA is an absolute last, **** hits the fan option. After a period of time underwater it's risky from any depth but from 30m? How many people will calmly swim to the surface with no air from that depth? How many times has the man himself tried a swim like that?

You obviously have not seen the most recent Mission Impossible movie.

 

[bbaydiver2]

Influencer ... can be good or bad influence

 

[34109411]

My intent on starting this thread wasn't necessarily to answer the question in the thread title but more to start a conversation about the opinions of the guy being interviewed in the video.
Specifically, should someone not commence a dive to a certain depth unless they are confident in their ability to do a CESA from that depth?

You don't commence a dive asking yourself if your able to do a cesa or not at a certain depth. In addition proper
gear choice such as redundant air source or team with a buddy will be good. You plan your dive know your air consumption make a dive plan and monitor your gas. If this being follow you should do well.

Plan your dive, dive your plan.

Be safe

 

[clownfishsydney]

Back in the huge 1994 bushfires that surrounded Sydney for a week and destroyed over 100 homes and killed a few people, a person survived when they used their scuba gear in their swimming pool while the fire passed overhead. So, yes, it can be life support gear.

 

[Centrals]

I cannot dive without scuba gear and I am not a free dive diver.
When I am inside a wreck there is no such thing as CESA.

 

[ReadyDiverOne]

I must say, as a very avid and pretty experienced rec diver (@400 dives), but nowhere near as experienced or knowledgeable as many others on the board), I saw this video too and really scratched my head. I like the interviewer and usually find his stuff interesting and informative. But this just seemed stupid and intended to do little more than promote dispute and generate clicks (as it has, witness this thread). I've never thought realistically that I would do a CESA from 100+ feet in case of an emergency, although I guess I probably could, but rather have always relied on ensuring that my equipment is solid, high quality and recently checked for any issues, and on the fact that one or more buddies is nearby with air to share. The guy's assertion that one shouldn't dive deeper than one can do a CESA is just silly, I think. Having said that, if I dived more often and more often with people I don't know and more frequently deep (100+ feet), I would certainly start to consider caring a pony. But as it is now, where I don't dive as much as I used to and when I do I'm diving with people I know and trust, I don't see the need quite yet for a pony.

So all in all, just a bizarre take on rec diving, in my humble opinion.

 

[CG43]

You don't commence a dive asking yourself if your able to do a cesa or not at a certain depth.

But that's exactly what this man is demanding !!!
And if you want to dive deep, you have to train your ability to perform a CESA.

In the 1970s in Germany, an advanced diving certification included a free ascent from 30 m. This part of the test was removed because there were too many incidents.
At that time, we had a maximum ascent rate of 18 m/min, so the ascent only needed 1.5 minutes.
As a freediver, that was also a fun exercise for me. Back then, and even today, I believe that a minimum level of freediving ability is part of advanced scuba diving. Let's say a freediving depth of 18 m should not be difficult, then a CESA from 18 m is also not a problem.
Before the 30 m free ascent, a free dive to at least 20 m should always have been demonstrated first.

If the problem is that you have emptied your tank, for example in 50 meters, it still has 6 bar of pressure that you can use when ascending to a shallower depth. You can calculate an acceptable ascent, and you can also try it, which I have done. However, I would only recommend trying it to freedivers, as it is quite challenging.

I don't know if the exercises suggested by the man are very helpful. This is not mainly about learning movement patterns, but about physiological adjustments when one cannot breathe. For comparison, one does not learn long-distance running in a few days , but through frequent training the body adapts without us having direct influence . You should be happy, calm, and relaxed, even if you sometimes don't need to breathe or can't breathe . The redundancy you gain from this is sufficient for most recreational dives.

 

[lizardland]

But this just seemed stupid and intended to do little more than promote dispute and generate clicks (as it has, witness this thread).

I totally agree. It's being contentious for its own sake and is basically a smart arse making a semantics argument.

The other thing that was like fingers down a blackboard was "the difference between climbing with ropes and freeclimbing". That falls firmly in the "don't pontificate about things you don't know about" category.

I've never thought realistically that I would do a CESA from 100+ feet in case of an emergency., although I guess I probably could, but rather have always relied on ensuring that my equipment is solid, high quality and recently checked for any issues, and on the fact that one or more buddies is nearby with air to share.

I totally agree with that as well. If you are having to do a CESA then you've failed. You have managed to **** up every single step in the chain to get you to the point that you are pointing yourself at the sky and praying whatever air you have in your lungs will get you to the surface.

There are so many things you need to get wrong to get there. FFS, your spare gas swims alongside you. Don't let it run off like an out of control puppy with your car keys.

But that's exactly what this man is demanding !!!
And if you want to dive deep, you have to train your ability to perform a CESA.

I disagree. If you want to dive deep then you need to train your ability to deal with the problem where you are. The surface is not the solution. Getting into the mindset that pointing yourself upwards is the answer is going to eventually lead to something bad happening that didn't need to. As I said above, a CESA is the end of a chain of failures and we should be training people to not be making those failures in the first place.

On the other hand, I agree with the rest of your post. I think freediving is an important skill. The trouble is, most people want to learn to dive in a few days, only ever dive on their annual holiday and are happy to dive with a professional baby-sitter. I would hazard a guess that the people diving locally and diving regularly are the minority and they aren't who the dive industry is set up for. That's the benefit of the European-style club model, you can take time to ensure that training is a bit more rounded and comprehensive.

 

[paddydiver]

But that's exactly what this man is demanding !!!
And if you want to dive deep, you have to train your ability to perform a CESA.

In the 1970s in Germany, an advanced diving certification included a free ascent from 30 m. This part of the test was removed because there were too many incidents.
At that time, we had a maximum ascent rate of 18 m/min, so the ascent only needed 1.5 minutes.
As a freediver, that was also a fun exercise for me. Back then, and even today, I believe that a minimum level of freediving ability is part of advanced scuba diving. Let's say a freediving depth of 18 m should not be difficult, then a CESA from 18 m is also not a problem.
Before the 30 m free ascent, a free dive to at least 20 m should always have been demonstrated first.

If the problem is that you have emptied your tank, for example in 50 meters, it still has 6 bar of pressure that you can use when ascending to a shallower depth. You can calculate an acceptable ascent, and you can also try it, which I have done. However, I would only recommend trying it to freedivers, as it is quite challenging.

I don't know if the exercises suggested by the man are very helpful. This is not mainly about learning movement patterns, but about physiological adjustments when one cannot breathe. For comparison, one does not learn long-distance running in a few days , but through frequent training the body adapts without us having direct influence . You should be happy, calm, and relaxed, even if you sometimes don't need to breathe or can't breathe . The redundancy you gain from this is sufficient for most recreational dives.

It was removed because of too many incidents! Thats precisely the point. It is extremely difficult to do even when you are prepared for it as part of an exercise. Also as a freediver you know that a freedive to 20m is a totally different animal to a ascent from 20 or 30m when you are stressed and out of air, wearing scuba. Performing this dive you are mentally and physically prepared. You breath up, you're wearing only fins, suit and mask, No drag, you're weighted to be buoyant from at least 5m deep. Compare that to an unexpected emergency swim when your heart rate is up and in addition you have the drag of bcd, regs and tank and you are weighted to keep you down comfortably at a 5m stop when your tank is low on air.

CESA is a Hail Mary moment, full stop. You've f#@ked up and your last desperate chance is a swim to the surface.

 

[happy-diver]

Scuba gear is a means to go scuba diving, so then scuba gear is a means!


I agree wholepiecedly

FFS, your spare gas swims alongside you. Don't let it run off like an out of control puppy with your car keys.