is it just me ????

[Mo2vation]

From my experiences, I think GUE has some organizational issues to work out. I'd like to see some of that being discussed, because sometimes I think these glowing reports are setting unrealistic expectations for those who are considering the program. I'm not interested in airing "dirty laundry" ... but I do think a well-rounded discussion of an agency provides a better view of what to expect before someone decides to sign up for the class.

Or are my experiences more the exception than the rule? Frankly, I got a lot out of the class ... although it wasn't what I was led to expect.
... Bob (Grateful Diver)

There were a lot of operational and organizational issues that could be improved. I wrote all about it in my DIR/F report TWO years ago (if you can belive that... wow)

I too got a lot out of the class. But more from the in-water than from the class room portions. Heck, I remember Arnaud took his not long after I took mine, and there wasn't even a videographer. How can you have a Fundys without the nightly video humiliation? The materials I recieved were very sub par (not the inscribed stone tablets Uncle Pug recieved - and has resisted eBaying so far... but photo copies of incomplete PowerPoint presentations, and hand-written notes. Not the best of marerials.) However, the instruction sincere and relevant - but not real polished. I'm OK with that, I just wish the take-aways were more together.

As far as a classroom went, it was amateur hour (that's harsh - I mean, it wasn't what I'd come to expect from the PADI and SSI classes I'd taken.) As far as a learning experience goes, it was excellent - but I came in with far fewer dives than most people do, and I wasn't attached to any shop so I had no diving mentors or even regular diving buddies. Of the 5 of us in the class, I probably got the most out of it because I came in with the least amount of baggage, and had never met anyone who had taken it before. All I knew about it I read here.

I remember writing in my SB report (which is really unreadable now - like most of my older posts :11 that if GUE aspires to become a legitimate, semi-mainstream playah of an agency, they'll need to step up their operational and organizational skills.

Looks like they may have a little ways more to go in that regard.

---
Ken

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

As a side-note, as I understand it, the class Bob took was *not* through Fifth D. No shame should fall on them for this story IMO.

Actually, it was. At least, I paid for the class at 5th D, and attended the classroom portion of the course at the shop.

I've received some PM's as a result of this thread ... some of which have been very helpful, which I appreciate. Others have made me aware of some things that I hadn't been privy to, which shed light on the situation. I won't share those ... it's not my place to discuss shop business, especially on the internet. But this was most definitely a 5th D sponsored class.

FWIW - no shame should fall on anyone for this story. I liked my instructor, and I had hoped to take the re-eval with him. And as I said at the onset, my comments were not meant as criticism. Heck, I'm an instructor ... I understand how sometimes things can go awry even with the best of effort and attention. I wasn't trying to come across as critical of either the store or the instructor.

Given that the remarks on this forum about DIR-F classes are so lopsidedly positive, I was just curious if there were others out there who had similar experiences. When you hear these rave reviews, and they're so at odds with your experiences, they make you wonder why.

I feel that people who are considering DIR-F should be given both the upside and downside of what goes on in the class. It's the only way for people to make informed choices.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[lamont]

I think the big take-away caveat emptor of that fundies class is that you should really take the class with an instructor that commonly comes out to your area, and you should make sure that the scheduling allows for enough time to complete it. Most DIRF classes are 2.5 days and some I've heard do an extra night for 3 days, which would be good. That one was only 2 days and suffered a little bit from being too rushed.

I still haven't figured out what to do about upgrading my provisional DIRF to a passed. Right now I could probably pass it, but most of the feedback I'd get would probably be stuff I already knew I needed to work on. I'm thinking of getting that stuff down solid and then getting equipped with a doubles, stage and Ar bottle and looking at the DIRF checkout (and my $100) as being a pre-RecTriox/Tech1 instructor eval.

 

[Peo]

Actually, it was. At least, I paid for the class at 5th D, and attended the classroom portion of the course at the shop.

Then I've misunderstood. Sorry 'bout that.

/Peo

 

[sharkmasterbc]

I too took a lot away from my DIR-F course but I definetly noticed things in the class that could use some improvement.
I agree that the class was very rushed and there was a lot of information presented in a short amount of time, it would have been nice to spend more time practicing the stuff presented in the class. The materials were definetly not up to par, I receicved a shoddy photocopied power point presentation which wass in no paticular order and missing pages here and there. We definetly missed out on a few in water drills as well, we were only shown how to shoot a bag and never got to actually practice, and the swim test was not for the required length. I took the class with all novice divers who really needed a lot of work and as an instructor myself I understand that classes are taught to the level of the most novice person, so I understand why we spent much more time on trim and buoyency instead of shooting bags.
The instructor did a few strange things as well, the course was taught in cold water enviro and one of the divers had a set of those ACB weight pouches on his rig, the instructor said that they were not DIR and helped the student to remove them. The class was held at the shop I work for and I was the one who filled the tanks for the sunday dives, while doing this I definetly noticed a few things on the instructors rig which we were taught the previous day wasent DIR ??? small things but I belive you must practice what you preach.
I did get a lot out of the course in the end but was almost not passed due to the fact that I was not able to take of my own "instructor hat". I can understand that diving in a team requires all members to be able to complete all the tasks in case one of the other members is incapacatated but I felt this a most ridiculous reason for not passing me. I did try to help the other students in the class a bit with rigging and tips on trim but now looking back maybe I was stepping on toes more than anything. Maybe it was just a personality conflict between me and the instructor but I would never ask this person to teach another course in my shop. Since the course we have contacted another instructor to come and run another fundies.
Another thing I found about the organization is that the requirements to become a GUE instructor are pretty strange, even if you are just crossing over from an other agency.
This post is not a slam but just MHO about my experiance, DIR-F has changed the way I dive, think, and act in a posetive way. I am glad that a course like this is avalible.

 

[joe_at_subtidal]

Having watched this thread developed, I thought I ought to respond. I am the instructor in question, not who taught Bob's first DIR-F class, but rather the one who was working to try and finish up his requirements for the class. He and I have since come up with a plan where he won't miss work, and allow him to attend the day 3 lecture/dry runs/ocean dives/video review in full. As the class commonly runs somewhere around $300, 1/3 of that, or $100 seemed reasonable for the time and energy on my part. We had tried to make it work for Day 2 this time around, but the size of the class (5 divers) did not make it feasible. Bob would be doing Day 3 skills, and they would not be ready as buddies. I didn't want to compromise the other student's learning experiences, nor Bob's. But, as I said, I think we've worked that out for the near future. Just FYI, all the classes I've taught this year have been 3 full day courses. It's pretty much the standard from 5thD-X.

In terms of the variety of folk's experience, DIR-F is a complicated class, in that the plot of the course is so different from most. As an example, most nitrox classes have only one type of student showing up: someone who is not certified to dive nitrox, and wishes to learn to dive nitrox. By comparison, my last two classes have had everyone from a new OW diver with 4 dives, to a trimix/cave diver with 2000, to a former instructor/cave diver with 5000 dives. Though they all come to learn about DIR, they also come with different interests (rebreathers, cave, photography) and different issues that they would like to improve within their own diving. Trying to cater a single class with a rigid plan is nigh impossible, and as such, everyone's experiences from instructor to instructor, from class to class, are going to be different.

This is certainly not meant to excuse any instructor, nor dismiss anyone's concerns, but realize that we're operating from a different paradigm. Not only do we have the above issues, we are also under a bit more pressure. I had one student who wanted "a SCUBA renaissance". How many advanced class students come in wanting that?

Regards,

Joe
www.5thd-x.com

 

[jonnythan]

Wait.. is Bob trying to re-eval with a *different* instructor? At the end of my class, it was explained that doing a re-eval with a different instructor would cost money, whereas doing it with the same instructor would not.

 

[kalvyn]

Wait.. is Bob trying to re-eval with a *different* instructor? At the end of my class, it was explained that doing a re-eval with a different instructor would cost money, whereas doing it with the same instructor would not.

Bob's complaint wasn't about the money, really. It was more about the lack of coordination and organization that he sensed in GUE. While I agree with his and other folks observations, I have a feeling he got his needs answered privately which is a good thing.

I took the fundies course before it was pass/fail. I've always wondered how I would handle getting into Tech 1 or Rec Triox, but have never asked anyone at GUE. From what I understand my fundies instructor is now in South Africa, and the assistant instructor is no longer teaching at any level. I have a feeling that I would be required to re-take the class, truth be told, but like I said I've never really asked about it. To be honest I've been kind of reticent about looking into it, due to the perceived and/or real organizational problems at GUE.

Jimmie

 

[Peo]

Joe's a great instructor, and I'm sure this'll work out fine for you, Bob.

[...]
In terms of the variety of folk's experience, DIR-F is a complicated class, in that the plot of the course is so different from most. As an example, most nitrox classes have only one type of student showing up: someone who is not certified to dive nitrox, and wishes to learn to dive nitrox. By comparison, my last two classes have had everyone from a new OW diver with 4 dives, to a trimix/cave diver with 2000, to a former instructor/cave diver with 5000 dives. Though they all come to learn about DIR, they also come with different interests (rebreathers, cave, photography) and different issues that they would like to improve within their own diving. Trying to cater a single class with a rigid plan is nigh impossible, and as such, everyone's experiences from instructor to instructor, from class to class, are going to be different.
[...]

I agree with Joe that this is at the heart of the difficulty with the Fundies class. It was a difficulty back when I took my Fundies, and it still seems to be an issue. The question for GUE is of course how this crux can be solved over time.

 

[ABQdiver]

Not only do we have the above issues, we are also under a bit more pressure. I had one student who wanted "a SCUBA renaissance". How many advanced class students come in wanting that?

Regards,

Joe
www.5thd-x.com

Actually, Joe, I think you gave him what he wanted!!

I have to say the class I was in did seem a bit rushed, but then again we had a lot of good information to get through. Our class was smaller than some I've heard about, so we got through all the skills and items on the agenda, but with little time to practice. I'll save that for later.....

I was really happy that we had the caliber of instructor we did. He kept the class flow under control, tempered all comments and suggestions with patience, humor and understanding that helped all of us who wanted to learn, to do just that!

Like any class, the whole is more than the sum of its parts. The instructor, the location and conditions, the other class mates all add up to some uncontrolable conditions that no one can deal with totally.

I need more work on my trim (keep those knees up) and practice with the skills. I'm glad I took the course and am stoked to learn the things I did and will continue to climb the ladder to the raised bar!

thanks Joe!!