Is a 6cf pony bottle good enough as a back up?

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PSFlyer, there is nothing wrong with your math. But I have two observations, from having taken a lot of classes that have involved simulated failures. One is that no one is that efficient -- it takes longer to get your act together and get off the bottom than you would think, and you may not manage the perfect ascent rate that you plan. The other is that I, personally, would never want to compute a safety reserve that was calculated to the precise cubic foot. If the computations say you need 13 cubic feet, carry at least 19; if the calculations say 20 cubic feet, I would carry a 40. Once you have committed yourself to a spare bottle, there is little point in gas parsimony :)

To the OP -- Six cubic feet of gas is really not an adequate reserve for anything but a very, very shallow dive. Sixes are most often, I think, used for dry suit inflation.
 
There is enough gas in a 6cuft cylinder to allow you to safely ascend to the place where you are going to drown...

Let's not be that dramatic :) it all depends on the depth of your dive.

Happy Diving
 
Since the vast majority of pony bottle users will be using something bigger, most divers will recommend something bigger. They are correct if your goal is to have the optimum size for safety across different dive environments and to be able to work though issues. The 6 avoids a CESA, but not a whole lot more. The 30/40 gives you lots of options in an emergency and the 13/19 are middle of the road.

I own and use 3 pony bottles, 6, 13 and 40 cu ft because I dive in different environments and have different level of size restrictions due to travel modes. The 13 is my go-to bottle of choice for most dives involving travel. The 6 gets used when space is real tight and I am willing to limit myself to 75'. The 40 gets used when things get more challenging or I am driving and size is not an issue.
 
I use one for solo diving to around 100 feet..

He is being sarcastic, of course.

At the end of the day, everyone has their own idea of what is "enough." You will never find a straight answer, because it's all relative. If you only dive in 30 feet of water with straight access to the surface (no boat traffic etc.) and with no entanglement hazards, a 6cuft pony is plenty.

However, some will say even a 40cuft bottle is not adequate, and they may be right, for example if you do solo diving in deep water and difficult conditions and/or entanglement hazards.

I spent a lot of time researching my options after I completed my solo diving class, and I decided on a compromise that would work FOR ME. That doesn't mean it works for everyone else.

I decided on a 19cuft, because I wanted it not to get in the way of my photography (I lug a big rig around underwater), and be able to take it on air travels, yet still with enough gas to ascend safely from 120ft+. I tried it once from 100 ft, did a nice slow ascent on the anchor line, a ten-minute safety stop, and if I remember correctly, still had 1000 psi in that little 19 cuft bottle on the surface.

That being said, had this been a real out-of-gas scenario, I would have been considerably more stressed out, breathing rate up, no anchor line and perhaps fighting a current. Would 19cuft be enough in that scenario? Maybe yes, maybe no. If you add entanglement to the mix, you can easily see where this is going.

But based on my scenario, I feel confident that I can make a reasonably slow and safe ascent from 130 feet including a good safety stop, on my 19 cuft pony.

In the meantime, though, I was diving with a 40 cuft bottle on one trip, and found that it hardly got in the way more than my little one. The reason is that when you sling your pony (IMHO, the only reasonable way of carrying it, but again, that's just me and you will find all kinds of differing views on that), the bulk of the bottle extends up next to your body and you don't even notice it.

My 2cents: If you want to travel with it, get a 19cuft (I consider that the absolute minimum). If travel is not an issue and you can see yourself doing serious solo diving, I wouldn't go below 40 cuft or at least 30 cuft. The 30s are actually a nice size, they're much lighter than a 40 cuft, but don't quote me on that. That's just from remembrance, haven't looked up the numbers. Also, if technical diving is in your future, a 40cuft can make a good deco bottle. A 19cuft is a bit less useful in that regard, except for 100% O2.

I wouldn't buy a pony without knowing my SAC rate. I determined mine as part of the solo diving class. I sat in my apartment, breathing from a tank for 30 mins and wrote down my air consumption. Now, this of course will give you a very "benign" number, and you will have to adjust it according to circumstances. For example, for contingency planning, I would double or even triple that number to account for stress. Then multiply the result by whatever ambient pressure you're doing your scenario for (e.g. 4 atmospheres at 100 feet), and how much time you want it to last. That will spit out a result that would make your best guesstimate on how big you want your pony bottle to be. You might be surprised and find that you need to go with a fairly big tank if you want it to cover a light entanglement scenario at 110 feet under stress AND a safe ascent after that.

Good luck!
 
I use one for solo diving to around 100 feet..

I want to see a 6cf tank explode!
 
He is being sarcastic, of course.

!

No I am not! I actually lied, I use it for no-deco solo dives to around 130 feet actually, but i though that would not go over so well.

A few months ago, I ran my primary tank down to where it was hard to breath at around 120 feet and had to do an expedited ascent. I used both the (6 cu-ft) pony and the primary tank and made a reasonably safe ascent, but lost a piece of gear (which I dropped) because I didn't have the air to screw around on the bottom.

Everyone should do their own math, but if you use a 6 cu-ft pony bottle, there is zero options for fixing things on the bottom, You will need to inflate the BC, imobilize your oxygen-sucking leg muscles, and concentrate on riding your BC at an apporpiate ascent rate and control the breathing rate.

I would much rather see someone use a 6 than nothing.

Furthermore, I find it absolutely incredible that some people on this forum seem to advocate for a CESA from 60 or 100 ft, act like it is trivial and that there is little chance of a black out; but oh my GOD, ascending with a 6 cu-ft pony is going to kill you! :confused::confused:


This old thread where I used a pony bottle might be useful too.:

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/tanks-valves-bands/242071-used-13-cu-ft-pony-weekend.html
 
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No I am not! I actually lied, I use it for no-deco solo dives to around 130 feet actually, but i though that would not go over so well.

A few months ago, I ran my primary tank down to where it was hard to breath at around 120 feet and had to do an expedited ascent. I used both the (6 cu-ft) pony and the primary tank and made a reasonably safe ascent, but lost a piece of gear (which I dropped) because I didn't have the air to screw around on the bottom.

Everyone should do their own math, but if you use a 6 cu-ft pony bottle, there is zero options for fixing things on the bottom, You will need to inflate the BC, imobilize your oxygen-sucking leg muscles, and concentrate on riding your BC at an apporpiate ascent rate and controlling their breathing rate.

I would much rather see someone use a 6 than nothing.

Furthermore, I find it absolutely incredible that some people on this forum seem to advocate for a CESA from 60 or 100 ft, act like it is trivial and that and there is little chance of a black out, but oh my GOD, ascend with a 6 cu-ft pony is going to kill you! :confused::confused:


This old thread where I used a pony bottle might be useful too.:

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/tanks-valves-bands/242071-used-13-cu-ft-pony-weekend.html

I am trying to figure out if you are insane or I am gullible. Is your daytime job a UXO Tech? :)
 
I would much rather see someone use a 6 than nothing.

Furthermore, I find it absolutely incredible that some people on this forum seem to advocate for a CESA from 60 or 100 ft, act like it is trivial and that and there is little chance of a black out, but oh my GOD, ascend with a 6 cu-ft pony is going to kill you! :confused::confused:


This old thread where I used a pony bottle might be useful too.:

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/tanks-valves-bands/242071-used-13-cu-ft-pony-weekend.html


For what is worth, I also agree 200% here. I keep reading and even hearing about how CESA is easy.
I screwed it up during my OW class (from 20ft :) , and I’ve tried it several times since then in pools (where granted it’s more difficult) or during scuba and free dives around 40ft or little more.
It maybe because I’m dump, but I still found it difficult and risky. So indeed, for people who really want a pony, it’s seem to be a better option.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/

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