Is 130 ft too deep?

[Mark Vlahos]

actually the original plan was to dive to 200 feet as everyone in the group agreed on... i started to feel a little narked and stopped at 160, several of the other divers did go down to 200. I was not comfortable with that so stayed at 160, was only there for 5 minutes when my high pressure hose blew. I am just glad my husband was with me to buddy breathe. Once the DM got to me i started buddy breathing with her. I know we should of gone up but I followed what she did since i was sharing air with her. I will never agree to this again that is for sure ( this was about 6 years ago) . We had been diving all week and had done several dives below 100 ft. That 160 for me was the first and last time. BTW i use very little air and usually come up with over 1500 psi when everyone else is at 500. Kathy

OK, so the plan was to 200 feet not 160...

Were you briefed in any way about what to do if you became separated from the dive master while at depth?

Sorry, for a normal Open Water diver 200 feet on air is just nuts! If you were trained in decompression diving protocolls that dive on air would still be nuts! You would be narc'd out of your head and without any training about how to deal with problems at depth. I suggest you get some decompression training if for no other reason than it will allow you to understand just how lucky you are.

I am curious, what size tank were you personally using, and what size tank were the other members of the group using? Also, you have said you were buddy breathing. Do you mean both breathing off of the same second stage, or were you using an octo (sharing the same first stage but your own second stage)? I realize this was six years ago but I figure you might remember.

Mark Vlahos

 

[GDI]

There are basically few criteria that determine any dive:
Depth/Dependency
Equipment/Environment
Air/Awareness
Time/Training
Health/Habits

Failure to observe any of these can result in the first letter of each statement above,(DEATH). As far as the dive itself is concerned Depth, Air, and Time are controlling factors. If you are not comfortable or do not have the skills to making this dive or any dive then give it a "Thumbs Up". Get the training and build your experience and comfort. Learn to calculate air supply requirements and improve your skills. This is truely a sport that the more you know the better it is. Select your instructor wisely regardless of agency there are NO NEW Secret Scuba Skills only secret handshakes

 

[Jason B]

Mike Ferrara, all I was trying to get at is that at some point we all have to take responsibility for our own actions...if I (fully understanding the situation I'm getting into) ask Curt to take me,(I wanted to , he thought my skills were good to do it) why is everyone jumping on Curt. They should jump on me. That's why insurance is so high, everyone has to pass the blame.
As a side note....I plan all my dives for a safe return also.

 

[scubacoz22]

OK, so the plan was to 200 feet not 160...

Were you briefed in any way about what to do if you became separated from the dive master while at depth?

Sorry, for a normal Open Water diver 200 feet on air is just nuts! If you were trained in decompression diving protocolls that dive on air would still be nuts! You would be narc'd out of your head and without any training about how to deal with problems at depth. I suggest you get some decompression training if for no other reason than it will allow you to understand just how lucky you are.

I am curious, what size tank were you personally using, and what size tank were the other members of the group using? Also, you have said you were buddy breathing. Do you mean both breathing off of the same second stage, or were you using an octo (sharing the same first stage but your own second stage)? I realize this was six years ago but I figure you might remember.

Mark Vlahos

Hey I was stupid about those things 6 years ago, believe me I would not do it again.At that time I figured the DM knew what she was doing . No we were not briefed on what to do. And I was use an octo buddy breathing Not using the same one. We were using the large steel tanks at the time and yes it was air. I will never do a dive that deep again as I know now it is too dangerous. and after that incident happened I realized it was stupid but figured the DM knew what she was doing. WELL NOW I know better. And I agree with you it was nuts but like I said I was STUPID about these things aback then, and know the rules. I have been down to 100-110 plenty of times since then but will never agree to go to 160 again thats for sure. As for being Narked I felt a little strange at 160 but not bad. My husband and I always do decompression stops just because it is the safe way to do things. We have our own computers and they reallyu do beep at us if we come up to fast . I never come up unless they say it is ok. I do remember she tried to get us to surface and we did stay down longer than she wanted us too. Maybe thats why I am here now. would rather spend a longer time at a safety stop than take a chance and come up too soon. Dont get me wrong I am not sayhing what we did was right, I just wanted people to know that following what the group wants to do can really be a dangerous situation which in my case it really could of been. Thank God we are not air hogs, i have done many a dive where i have come back with over 1500 psi and the rest of the group has 500. When we got back to the boat after sharing air with the DM for part of the dive and then my husband for the rest of the dive he still had 900 psi left in his tank. Believe me we were watching our air consumption very closely. But this lady will NEVER again agree to dive a deep dive like that. It is pure nuts. And there really was nothing to see at that depth anyway.

KATHY

 

[Mark Vlahos]

Kathy,

Please don't misunderstand me. You were trusting that the dive operation you were diving with would not act with gross negligence. You did choose to go on a dive that was beyond the scope of your prior training and experience, this was not a good choice. You have been forthright about your poor choice to make this dive, your admission is commendable. In the water you remained calm and dealt with the problems you were confronted with, again commendable.

Dive safe and happy,

Mark Vlahos

 

[padiscubapro]

Hey I was stupid about those things 6 years ago, believe me I would not do it again.At that time I figured the DM knew what she was doing . No we were not briefed on what to do. And I was use an octo buddy breathing Not using the same one. We were using the large steel tanks at the time and yes it was air. I will never do a dive that deep again as I know now it is too dangerous. and after that incident happened I realized it was stupid but figured the DM knew what she was doing. WELL NOW I know better. And I agree with you it was nuts but like I said I was STUPID about these things aback then, and know the rules. I have been down to 100-110 plenty of times since then but will never agree to go to 160 again thats for sure. As for being Narked I felt a little strange at 160 but not bad. My husband and I always do decompression stops just because it is the safe way to do things. We have our own computers and they reallyu do beep at us if we come up to fast . I never come up unless they say it is ok. I do remember she tried to get us to surface and we did stay down longer than she wanted us too. Maybe thats why I am here now. would rather spend a longer time at a safety stop than take a chance and come up too soon. Dont get me wrong I am not sayhing what we did was right, I just wanted people to know that following what the group wants to do can really be a dangerous situation which in my case it really could of been. Thank God we are not air hogs, i have done many a dive where i have come back with over 1500 psi and the rest of the group has 500. When we got back to the boat after sharing air with the DM for part of the dive and then my husband for the rest of the dive he still had 900 psi left in his tank. Believe me we were watching our air consumption very closely. But this lady will NEVER again agree to dive a deep dive like that. It is pure nuts. And there really was nothing to see at that depth anyway.

KATHY

Kathy,
Its good that you recognized your mistake, but with the proper training, experience, equipment and the right gases a 200fsw can be made with relative safety.

In some places there may be nothing to see at these depths, and others the dives are incredible.. Unfortunately you live in Texas where the boat operators (unless you get a 6 pack) seem to be afraid to do anything other than easy recreational dives with minimal equipment.

If you are every interested in Technical training whether to expand your horizons or make yourself a better diver, I have an Instructor I trained in Houston that does arrange dives beyond recreationsl limits and does lots of trips all over the world.. He is a diver I would trust my life to and we have done dives well over 400 fsw together.


He is a factory rep for several manufacturers so he travels all around the south west on a regular basis.

 

[Hank49]

I'm sorry I should have told you.

The ilite society I belong to is one of divers who have pulled other divers with attitudes like yours (or those who take your advice) from the water sreaming with their eyes bulging from their heads...and like I said they didn't look thrilled or like they were having fun.

Your profile says you're an OWSI? Your "thrill" statement is, to date, the most irresponsible thing I've ever heard an instructor say.

Sorry but I niether know or care anything about motocross, Indy cars or skydiving.

Mike, I'm not advising anyone to do this. I'm relating my view and why I would. I personally don't advise anyone to dive deep. Why do you feel the need to talk down to anyone who dives beyond what you deem safe? I think it's good for the newbs on the board to hear what it is like to dive deep in case they find themselves in that situation by accident. If you're pulling paniced divers out of the water, as an instructor maybe you put them in a situation they weren't ready for, ?? In my opinion you tend to over dramatize this issue. Lets say for some reason someone finds themself at 160 feet due to whatever reason. Your stand on this and how dangerous it is will have them in a panic just because they're at that depth when all they have to do is keep a cool head, ascend at a safe rate, use most of their remaining air on a safety stop (assuming they don't have a computer) and everything will be fine.
I came to diving in a different place than you. It was very common for most of the people I dived with to dive deep on air. No one died. I'm not telling anyone to do this. But I don't see any probelm relating it to whoever is interested without being belittled by someone who has probably never done it.

 

[Curt Bowen]

Mike Ferrara, all I was trying to get at is that at some point we all have to take responsibility for our own actions...if I (fully understanding the situation I'm getting into) ask Curt to take me,(I wanted to , he thought my skills were good to do it) why is everyone jumping on Curt. They should jump on me. That's why insurance is so high, everyone has to pass the blame.
As a side note....I plan all my dives for a safe return also.

I do not see what the big deal is about 160 feet. First, unlike those with less deep diving experience, I concider 160 feet an almost shallow dive. I have stoped there many times, "TO DO A DECOMPRESSION STOP" on my way up.

My deepest decompression stop has been 280 feet, LOL. Kinda funny stoping to off gas deeper than most divers have ever been.

This diving is not half hazard, its planned, mixed and requires a complete redundant system, not some single tank, grab my balls and drop into the abyss.

First, if I was diving with any of you and thought your skills were developed enough for me to take you on a tour (bounce, 5 minutes) dive down to 140-160 feet and you wanted to go. Get in, lets have some fun. I have done this MANY times.

But, if I did not think your skills were developed I would stay in shallow water, 80 feet or less and maybe help you on your gear configuration, fin techniques, decompression procedures, etc...

And if you really suck, being the exceptionally nice guy I am. I might just show you brittle starfish and shells on the 20 foot reef. Which I have done MANY MANY times.

The point is, I do not teach diving anymore, thus I have no standards I have to follow besides my own, and my standards are a lot different. For all you PADI and NAUI, by the book, follow all standards no matter the dive. We will see you back up ontop the reef when we return from the wall.

You can fire away all you wish.

Either way, I will still be diving deep walls, wrecks and caves and have lots of buddies (good divers) that will always join in. LOL

If you would like to join me on some dives, I am always going someplace, DEEP.

 

[Web Monkey]

I do not see what the big deal is about 160 feet. First, unlike those with less deep diving experience, I concider 160 feet an almost shallow dive. I have stoped there many times, "TO DO A DECOMPRESSION STOP" on my way up.

We're all impressed that you can do a decompression stop, and hope you enjoyed it.

The big deal is that 160' completely beyond the no-decompression limits, where recreational divers are trained.

This diving is not half hazard, its planned, mixed and requires a complete redundant system, not some single tank, grab my balls and drop into the abyss.

First, if I was diving with any of you and thought your skills were developed enough for me to take you on a tour (bounce, 5 minutes) dive down to 140-160 feet and you wanted to go. Get in, lets have some fun. I have done this MANY times.

District Attorney: "So you you knew the deceased was only certified for 60 feet?"

You: "Yes"

DA: "And you took him down to 160 feet, which you knew was 100 feet deeper than he had ever been, and far beyond recreational limits, where he had a panic attack, bolted to the surface and subsequently died?"

You: "Yes, I do it all the time"

DA: "No more questions"

The point is, I do not teach diving anymore, thus I have no standards I have to follow besides my own, and my standards are a lot different.

If someone wants to take deep diving classes, get into trimix and decompression, buy all the right equipment, do the training and then wants to go to 160 or 200 or whatever, that's great, but to offer a quick drop to 160' as some kind of thrill ride is completely irresponsible.

Terry

 

[H2Andy]

There is no way I would ever plan a dive to 130 feet on a single AL80, which is what I assume you would be diving.

i would, but it wouldn't be much of a dive.

using my rule of thumb rock bottom calculation* i can tell you that
my turn around is 2300 psi.

so.... i would do it, but as i said, not much of a dive

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* -- for an AL80, multiply max planned depth by 10 and
add 1,000 psi